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wdsj
08-12-2018, 07:52 AM
My first car was a Studebaker. 1969 (high school sophomore) 800 bucks for the 1964 Gran Turismo Hawk. That day, started my love affair with automobiles and I have been working on them since. Not professionally, always had another job that took most of my time and never stayed in one place long enough to create a working shop. Always making space in the garage to build an engine, pull the rear end, weld a floor pan slowly collecting tools and equipment and trying to find space to keep them and move to the next job.

AND NOW, my time has come! Retired, settled in one place for the rest of my life and just finished my shop.
Time to work the bucket list. Top of the list; a total car restoration. And did I mention I still own the 1964 Gran Turismo Hawk? Have several other oldies, but sooo many memories in that car. Drove that dude through high school and several collage years. Mid '70s, how can you drive a car that gets 10 mpg when your trying to get through school and gas prices are skyrocketing? 70 cents a gallon; where will it end? So the Hawk got parked and a 40 mpg B210 Datsun (remember those?) took me through the lean years. Enough reminiscing; but isn't that what old cars is all about? Is to me.

Been a member of this forum and the SDC for many years. Received a ton of great information, given a little.

Ready to start the first shop project; GT Hawk full restoration.
If there's an interest, I plan to chronicle trials and tribulations on the forum. I'm sure it's been done before, but I got nothing better to do and I know the knowledge on this site is valuable.

Next step is to add some photos; any starting advice would be great.

studefan
08-12-2018, 07:59 AM
Congrats on your retirement Dell.

For starters, before disassembly, I recommend taking tons of pictures of the car top to bottom particularly the detailed areas to record wire connections, hose routing, bolt patterns, brackets, etc. This will save a lot of time when you put it back together. Then, upon disassembly, mark and label everything. Good luck and have fun. Jeff

sweetolbob
08-12-2018, 08:00 AM
Love builds on the forum.

Best advice is take the job in steps so that you can see results occasionally. Makes it easier than just ripping it apart into a pile of parts that look like there will never be an end.

Bob

wdsj
08-12-2018, 08:38 AM
Good advice already!
I'm in final stage of getting shop ready; any ideas on racks I should build to store body parts?
2x4's and plywood should do the trick, but a plan from someone who has done it would be most appreciated.

jackb
08-12-2018, 08:59 AM
cut 5/8th's plywood in half, assemble brackets, and go with segregated areas for system storage...

70Avanti2
08-12-2018, 09:03 AM
I used angle iron and scrap wood (fences and pallets)

jts359
08-12-2018, 09:06 AM
Do your best to keep it off the floor , Floor space is always premium in my shop , Try a loft system but don't forget your own lifting capabilities, And enjoy your retirement , I retired 19 months ago and cant believe how fast time goes , Ed

70Avanti2
08-12-2018, 09:06 AM
Think about just driving it and working on. Slowly making it better. Much more enjoyable.

drrotor
08-12-2018, 09:15 AM
Being as how my shop doesn't have a lot of square footage, I've taken to hanging large parts (hoods, fenders, etc) from the ceiling. Climbed a ladder and bolted small pulleys to the rafters, and ran rope through them. Used Boat Cleats on the wall, so I can raise or lower them and then just "tie them off".
Got large plastic bins at Walmart and labeled them ("Dashboard". "Wiring". "Steering". etc.)
And when you disassemble: BAG IT AND TAG IT!

TWChamp
08-12-2018, 09:19 AM
I like to tackle all the small jobs and keep the car drivable, such as restore the generator and put it back on, then do the carb and put it back on. This way if you finally want to do a frame off, all the small things are done, and the frame can be sandblasted, painted, and reassembled in much less time. Don't store parts in cardboard boxes, as mice love to make nests in them.

swvalcon
08-12-2018, 09:22 AM
Dell Enjoy your retirement. Retirement is where it takes you all day to do what you use to do after work. Good luck on the restore. Hope you have plenty of money as it seems everything take three times as long and four times as much money as you think it will. We have almost the same situation. I have a 64 hawk I've been trying to get restored and have a 58 sliver hawk waiting in the wings to hot rod. This is about as far as I have gotten.

64studeavanti
08-12-2018, 09:35 AM
I have found that commercial racks from costco or home depot are much more cost effective and easier to build. I have over 20 that I purchased over the years and am very pleased with the result. I even made my work bench from them.

wdsj
08-12-2018, 09:39 AM
I have been working on my 57 Silver Hawk for 25 years. It's my driver. The GT has been in storage for over 25 years and it's going for the full tear down; just because a want too. you can do that when you retire, right?

More good ideas; I'm making a list!

rockne10
08-12-2018, 10:09 AM
I like those little ziplock plastic bags with the frosted area you can write on for keeping small parts or mounting hardware identified. They are available in a multitude of sizes. (ULINE is one source.)

In addition to shelving ideas already offered, I think at least one storage cabinet with shelves comes in handy for storing small parts already rebuilt or repainted and awaiting the re-assemble. It keeps them out of the way, and clean until you are ready for them. Large Rubbermaid bins do this as well, but then you are always moving the top bins to get to the bottom ones; and a tall cabinet makes things immediately visible. Items on the shelves should be wrapped or put in to smaller containers.
If this is going to be a body off frame restoration you are going to need at least four times the space the car usually occupies.

Looking forward to progress reports.

Pancho
08-12-2018, 10:54 AM
When you’re finished with the hawk I want to follow the B210 restoration.

jclary
08-12-2018, 12:36 PM
I have been working on my 57 Silver Hawk for 25 years. It's my driver. The GT has been in storage for over 25 years and it's going for the full tear down; just because a want too. you can do that when you retire, right?

More good ideas; I'm making a list!

I keep saying..."NEXT TIME I RETIRE, I AM TELLING NOBODY!!!":mad:...Especially relatives & neighbors. Be careful, 'cause folks will call on you for everything and resort to pulling on your heart strings and plastering you with guilt trips. Before you know it, you are busier than ever!:QQ:

sweetolbob
08-12-2018, 12:39 PM
One thought on shelving, I've built some in my polebarn from plywood and 2 X 4's as well as bought some from the Big Box Stores with success but the best deals I've found on shelving is auctions. I've got about 35-40 running feet of eight ft high steel shelves with steel supports. I'm not sure what they hold but I've yet to put a sag in a shelf.

Attend a few, you have the time and you never know what else may pop up. Just don't go crazy, I've watched a lot of stuff go for dang near new prices also.

As Sears and a few of the other usual suspects shut down, they usually sell off the shelving also.

Bob

70Avanti2
08-12-2018, 03:31 PM
As your taking things off / apart take lots and lots of pictures. you'll have questions when you put it back together 10 years from now.

wdsj
08-13-2018, 08:57 AM
As your taking things off / apart take lots and lots of pictures. you'll have questions when you put it back together 10 years from now.

The "lots of pictures" I completely get. Best advise out there.
My first dabble in auto restoration was a 1919 Chevy Touring car my dad restored in the early 70's. He took pictures of everything on the car back then; just had to develop them and store them in a book (nothing digital then).

wdsj
08-13-2018, 08:59 AM
Just realized I put the wrong year on the GT, It's a 62 not 64. I have a 64 220SB Mercedes that is in the Que for some day.

scott.rodgers
08-13-2018, 09:39 AM
Since your doing a complete restoration, there are several updates that would make your GT even better without making it a custom car. I would recommend the hood stiffening and inner fender kits from Classic Enterprises:

https://www.classicent.com/studebaker/coupes-hawks

Also, "quick" steering arms are nice too. I have some on my '60 Lark.

And yes, I'd love to see a full restoration thread on the forum!

t walgamuth
08-13-2018, 02:35 PM
I had a datsun b210 wagon. 1300cc five speed. I made the mistake of fitting one size over michelin xzx tires. The slight change in gear ratio was enough to make the car undrivable in a headwind. It would get 40 mpg though.;)

I had a meeting scheduled and was running us 31 south from south bend and in fourth gear could only sustain about 45 mph.

Soon after that I traded it for a volvo 265. That 2.7 v6 had some torque!

bob40
08-13-2018, 04:02 PM
Just working on it one hour a day will accomplish a great deal. You don’t get burned out and after a short time you’ll be amazed how much you can get done in one hour

wdsj
08-14-2018, 07:50 AM
Seems there is lots of interest in this thread, so let's keep it going.
My wife and I decided to retire in MS about 10 years ago; though neither of us lived here much, it is our family home. First things first; get some land and build a storage building (for those who aren't married, that's code for "future shop"). Since built we have moved several times and each time more things go into storage. My parents passed and much of their stuff went to storage. My wife's parents passed and much of their stuff went to storage.

The attached is a picture of shop before even more stuff went to storage. Can't find a picture of the final stuffed full building; but this gives an idea. When I moved here the 40x60 "storage building" was full. Had to move things just to walk around. No power, no lights.

This post started with; "Retired and ready to work new project" but retirement started about 6 months ago. At that time the priority was; finish retirement house and turn storage building into shop.

wdsj
08-14-2018, 08:04 AM
and here is progress from yesterday; getting close!
Power, lights, space, shelfs and A/C (essential in northeast MS)
74778

74779

kmul221
08-14-2018, 09:54 AM
At least you R honest about MPG. most claim to get 20 MPG. my 63 GT gets about 14-16 with every thing new or rebuilt.Nice looking shop by the way.

tsenecal
08-14-2018, 10:00 AM
The shop is looking good! Adecent shop, with enough room to move around, and store parts, is a must. Good luck on retirement, and your project.

wdsj
09-20-2018, 10:28 AM
hello stude fans
i have not posted in awhile. i'm having issues with herniated disk that makes my arms ache and fingers numb, and carpel tunnel.
using computer is tough these days.
But it don't keep me off the studebaker.

i will post some progress photos.
This car is in great shape and has never been apart. I've taken over 500 pictures so far.
if anyone need a detail photo of something as i go just let me know.

Question; should i start a new post with a more searchable title?

wdsj
09-20-2018, 10:51 AM
the car
75830

75831

75832

i still have the original spare tire
75833

75834

i started at the front removing body

75835
hood, grill, bumper and fenders

75836 75837
windows and doors

slow and steady

christophe
09-20-2018, 10:54 AM
if anyone need a detail photo of something as i go just let me know.

Thanks for your nice idea.
If this is not too bothersome, I'd be glad to get some close pics of the four aluminium trims that go on the headliner seams.
I'm asking this because I suspect that some of them might be inverted on my car. I also have to locate the exact postion of the front holes on both sides. The front bow was never installed as they failed to find the holes and I'd rather not disturb the headliner or the windlace to find about this.
Edit: I just saw your pics and your car looks really nice. I wish my 63GT was as rust-free as yours!
Nice day to all.

tsenecal
09-20-2018, 10:57 AM
It looks like a nice solid car to start a restoration on. The pictures that you've taken will come in handy, when you start to reassemble. I had a few times, that I wished I had taken more. Good luck with your back, and your project.

wdsj
09-20-2018, 11:19 AM
Thanks for your nice idea.
If this is not too bothersome, I'd be glad to get some close pics of the four aluminium trims that go on the headliner seams.
I'm asking this because I suspect that some of them might be inverted on my car. I also have to locate the exact postion of the front holes on both sides. The front bow was never installed as they failed to find the holes and I'd rather not disturb the headliner or the windlace to find about this.
Edit: I just saw your pics and your car looks really nice. I wish my 63GT was as rust-free as yours!
Nice day to all.

I am going for the seats then rear fenders. When I get to headliner I will get some detail picts. Whatever was missed on you car it will make sure I don't do the same.

would pre removal picts of headliner help?

dell

wdsj
09-20-2018, 11:23 AM
It looks like a nice solid car to start a restoration on. The pictures that you've taken will come in handy, when you start to reassemble. I had a few times, that I wished I had taken more. Good luck with your back, and your project.

one of the cool things about the car is, I have owned for almost 50 years and it was my only car for about 10. So when I find something messed up, I can usually remember doing it!

wdsj
09-20-2018, 11:26 AM
I finally figured out last month how to get wifi in my shop (about 150 yards away from my home) using a wireless bridge. Works great.
If anyone has the same issue, maybe i can help. It was very easy. If you know how to set up wifi in you home, you can do this.

christophe
09-20-2018, 12:39 PM
Yes, I'd be glad to get some additional pics. Especially from the area around the windshield and the defroster ducts. I also suspect they goofed when they put the dashboard back as there is almost no space between the ducts and the windshield.
Thanks again.

Hallabutt
09-20-2018, 02:15 PM
This probably a little late but some advice that will no doubt will be ignored. Over 55 years I have gone through the process half a dozen times from driver to Pebble Beach restoration, and this is what I recommend.
1) Determine what you want your car to be. Do you want a show winner or an enjoyable driver. Once you decide don't change your mind!
2) Unless you want a show winner don't take the body off the frame. It will add significantly to the time required, and the extra work will never be that obvious for a driven car.
3) Don't restore a car to show quality if you only hope to drive it.
4) Rather then tearing the whole car apart, consider a component restoration, whereby you work on a single thing a one time, and try to keep the car as complete as possible. You might even be able to drive and enjoy the car as you go through the process, rather then just having piles of parts taking up shop space.
5) Don't expect to do everything yourself. Time and the pitfalls of the quality of an armature restoration, will effect the quality of the restoration.

It looked to me that your car was a great candidate for a component restoration. I really doubt that I would have torn it down. There is a great deal that can be accomplished without complete disassembly. It looks like you have already determined how you want to proceed, but just thought that I would drop my two cents into the meter. I just wish somebody had been able to talk some sense to me, before I made some of the mistakes that I made over the years. Final analysis you will do what you want, so good luck.

Bill

wdsj
09-20-2018, 03:52 PM
This probably a little late but some advice that will no doubt will be ignored. Over 55 years I have gone through the process half a dozen times from driver to Pebble Beach restoration, and this is what I recommend.
1) Determine what you want your car to be. Do you want a show winner or an enjoyable driver. Once you decide don't change your mind!
2) Unless you want a show winner don't take the body off the frame. It will add significantly to the time required, and the extra work will never be that obvious for a driven car.
3) Don't restore a car to show quality if you only hope to drive it.
4) Rather then tearing the whole car apart, consider a component restoration, whereby you work on a single thing a one time, and try to keep the car as complete as possible. You might even be able to drive and enjoy the car as you go through the process, rather then just having piles of parts taking up shop space.
5) Don't expect to do everything yourself. Time and the pitfalls of the quality of an armature restoration, will effect the quality of the restoration.

It looked to me that your car was a great candidate for a component restoration. I really doubt that I would have torn it down. There is a great deal that can be accomplished without complete disassembly. It looks like you have already determined how you want to proceed, but just thought that I would drop my two cents into the meter. I just wish somebody had been able to talk some sense to me, before I made some of the mistakes that I made over the years. Final analysis you will do what you want, so good luck.

Bill

Agree with everything
I may regret it later, but this is something I have always wanted to do.

thanks
again, good advice.

wdsj
09-22-2018, 07:37 AM
Thanks for your nice idea.
If this is not too bothersome, I'd be glad to get some close pics of the four aluminium trims that go on the headliner seams.
I'm asking this because I suspect that some of them might be inverted on my car. I also have to locate the exact postion of the front holes on both sides. The front bow was never installed as they failed to find the holes and I'd rather not disturb the headliner or the windlace to find about this.
Edit: I just saw your pics and your car looks really nice. I wish my 63GT was as rust-free as yours!
Nice day to all.

PM sent on photos

does this forum show high resolution photos?

wdsj
09-23-2018, 07:34 AM
Looking for any advice on body panel and body removal. Do's and don'ts.

I am basically a gear head. Mechanical stuff I can generally figure out. But body work is not my forte; it's is learned skill (with some art mixed in) I don't have. I will have help putting it back together and taking it apart looks basic, but....

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

thanks

RDWEAVER
09-23-2018, 08:22 AM
I can remember when I did mine that the Philips head oval screws that held the door hinges to the post were the worst. I soaked them and soaked them tried heating them and finally drilled the ones that did not come out. then I had to replace some of the caged square nuts on the door post. The replacement screws in oval head are hard to find. I used longer ones and had to cut/grind them to the right length. Mine took two years and that was the fast track for me. My wife and I spent almost all of the spare time we had on the car. But we were not retired and did all of it after work and on weekends. You will be challenged I can assure you, but don't get discouraged because when you get it done the work you went through for this will be worth it. Good Luck and keep us all posted!

sweetolbob
09-23-2018, 08:43 AM
Looking for any advice on body panel and body removal. Do's and don'ts.

I am basically a gear head. Mechanical stuff I can generally figure out. But body work is not my forte; it's is learned skill (with some art mixed in) I don't have. I will have help putting it back together and taking it apart looks basic, but....

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

thanks

For panel removal, you will need the shop manual, and go from there. I guess I don't think of body panel removal any different than engine removal. It's all mechanical.

As far as body work, in this day and age, youtube has about anything covered you will want to do.

I'm wrapping up my 74 Avanti currently and all of the mechanical, body work and paint was done by me. As I look at the finished product, I can see a few flaws and areas that I can improve but that's why I paint with Acrylic Enamel.

So it's not perfect but it's kinda nice and I can say that I did it myself. My Dad and Grandfathers had to do everything because they couldn't afford to buy things so their creativity was evident in the fabrications they left behind. If they f'ed it up they redid it until it worked.

My hope is they are looking down saying he ain't that good but he sure tried his butt off. It's always possible until proven undo-able.

Bob

jclary
09-23-2018, 08:46 AM
From my casual observation, you are blessed with a solid car that does not appear to need a lot of body reconstruction. Being a gearhead, in my opinion, is an asset toward learning bodywork. At some point, all of it involves mechanical understanding. My suggestion is to take your time to evaluate your project and determine what really needs attention and things that will be better left alone. For example, why remove a panel if it fits well, is not rusted, or distorted? Even on today's assembly lines, there are body specialists trained to do nothing but tweak panels for "fit & finish." Back when our vehicles were built, fenders, doors, and body panel molds were much less exact. Sometimes they were damaged, dinged, or distorted in the process of just getting to the assembly line. Often, the "fit" guys would shim, hammer, or even bend pieces to fit. If you remove a panel, or door, etc., make sure all washers, and shims are kept and noted as to place and sequence.

In my younger days, I found it easy to criticize the work of others. After doing my own bodywork, and extensive restoration, I believe I have gained enough first-hand knowledge to evaluate good and bad bodywork. However, now that I am older (hopefully wiser), my compassion makes me reluctant to criticize the honest best effort of my fellow hobbyists. For your project, be patient, do your best, and take your time. For the bodywork/paint/upholstery, you might seek out and find someone willing to allow you to provide a little "sweat equity," like sanding, body filler, and shooting a primer coat, and let them shoot the final finish after approving your prep work. That was how I worked out some of the tasks that were above my skill level.

Whatever you do, take notes, and pictures. Don't throw parts in a pile and think you will remember where they went. When possible, put bolts, washers, & parts back in the holes they came from, even if the parts they held are not there. You will not lose the fender to pillar fasteners if they are still in the A-pillar. And, you won't be able to put the fender back on 'till you take them out to reinstall the fender. One of my favorite tools for my restoration projects has been a chair. That is where I take the time to sit, contemplate, and plan my next step needing to be done. Works wonders!

Good luck, and thanks for sharing your project with us. I hope we can provide encouragement for your labor.:)

wdsj
09-23-2018, 08:55 AM
I can remember when I did mine that the Philips head oval screws that held the door hinges to the post were the worst. I soaked them and soaked them tried heating them and finally drilled the ones that did not come out. then I had to replace some of the caged square nuts on the door post. The replacement screws in oval head are hard to find. I used longer ones and had to cut/grind them to the right length. Mine took two years and that was the fast track for me. My wife and I spent almost all of the spare time we had on the car. But we were not retired and did all of it after work and on weekends. You will be challenged I can assure you, but don't get discouraged because when you get it done the work you went through for this will be worth it. Good Luck and keep us all posted!

Appreciate the encouragement and I have already been through the stuck hinge screws. Six of twelve came out, six would not. Drilled them all out successfully, however not so lucky on the front fender removal. Broke loose one of the cage nuts inside the front pillar; not sure how to fix that. Any way to reach without cutting a whole?

Anything that needs to be braced before removing the body from the frame?

Thanks

wdsj
09-24-2018, 12:11 PM
For panel removal, you will need the shop manual, and go from there. I guess I don't think of body panel removal any different than engine removal. It's all mechanical.

As far as body work, in this day and age, youtube has about anything covered you will want to do.

I'm wrapping up my 74 Avanti currently and all of the mechanical, body work and paint was done by me. As I look at the finished product, I can see a few flaws and areas that I can improve but that's why I paint with Acrylic Enamel.

So it's not perfect but it's kinda nice and I can say that I did it myself. My Dad and Grandfathers had to do everything because they couldn't afford to buy things so their creativity was evident in the fabrications they left behind. If they f'ed it up they redid it until it worked.

My hope is they are looking down saying he ain't that good but he sure tried his butt off. It's always possible until proven undo-able.

Bob

Could not have expressed my feelings better.

I appreciate the way you think.
And isn't YouTube amazing?

RDWEAVER
09-25-2018, 07:43 PM
Appreciate the encouragement and I have already been through the stuck hinge screws. Six of twelve came out, six would not. Drilled them all out successfully, however not so lucky on the front fender removal. Broke loose one of the cage nuts inside the front pillar; not sure how to fix that. Any way to reach without cutting a whole?

Anything that needs to be braced before removing the body from the frame?

Thanks
Not really a good way to do it without cutting an access hole. The hole you cut will not be in plain sight... but if the metal is good it can be as good as new when finished. I had to cut mine to weld in new cage nuts. I had the toolroom guys at work make mine for me. They should really be caged nuts by the way. Otherwise the dimensions will need to be perfect to fit the hinge correctly. Countersunk screws only tighten up in one exact location. By the way, SI has the bolts but they were a little long IIRC. Not in the catalogue you have to call and ask for em.