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Stude Shoo-wop!
07-30-2018, 11:59 AM
OK, here's what I'm wondering. I only spent $15,000 on my '62 GT Hawk initially, but after dumping another $10,000 into it in order to get it here and make it more driveable, I wonder if I'm still in the black as far as my finances are concerned. I fully understand that I'm in the wrong nameplate if I want to make money, but I would like to know whether or not I will likely lose money if I should sell it.

Furthermore, I wonder if it's still the case that Studebakers can be had for a fraction of the cost of a Big Three-mobile. Have they matured in that sense or is the value still there? Inquiring minds want to know!

74195

tsenecal
07-30-2018, 12:17 PM
You may be a little underwater at $25,000. My guess on the value is around $20,000. The other $5000 get deducted as the cost of enjoyment, when you are driving it.

R_David
07-30-2018, 12:18 PM
Hagerty's lists "Good" condition value at $16,400 and "Excellent" condition value at $29,200. The big thing to remember when trying to get the most money on a sale for one of these is marketing, marketing, marketing & patience, patience, patience. It will take time to find a buyer who is willing to pay top dollar, but they are out there.

StudeRich
07-30-2018, 12:28 PM
You are definitely "in the Red" at this point with $25,000.00 spent, but getting 5K or so pleasure & 5 years use out of it may be the best option.
A $15,000 Car should not require $10,00.00 to make it right.

IMHO, a Non original or not originally restored Car like that, just does not have that kind of value.

t walgamuth
07-30-2018, 12:41 PM
You cannot count maintenance as an increase in value, generally. A non runner vs a runner is a big difference so that might be the exception.

If I buy a car, have fun with it and fix things on it I am happy. If I can sell for more than I have in it that is a bonus. Mostly I am happy if I can get most of my money back.

Jessie J.
07-30-2018, 01:15 PM
Look at it this way. If you had spent that $25,000 on a run of the mill late model used car, what do you think it would be worth after 5 years of ownership? You have enjoyed the pleasure and pride (hopefully) and fraternity of ownership of a relatively rare classic automobile. 5k underwater? $5,000 รท 60 months = $83.33 per month. pffff.
A thing to always keep in mind as a Studebaker enthusiast is, Your Studebaker is worth, and it will always be worth, whatever it is worth to YOU. If you are willing to sell it for less than you have into it, that is your choice.
The next owner might choose to upgrade it further and you could well someday see your old heap selling for beyond $50k.

TWChamp
07-30-2018, 02:05 PM
I agree with Rich and Tom. I'm surprised you had to spend 10K more on it. I'd hope you did all the work yourself, so you don't have a high labor bill. As Tom said, the cost is really secondary as long as it's the car you want and enjoy. I thought I paid about 3K too much for my recent 50 Land Cruiser, but after fixing what was wrong with it, I really enjoy it now, and must say it's the smoothest, quietest, best riding car I've ever owned.

jackb
07-30-2018, 04:01 PM
Funny.... I think the realistic question you have is: What would you forum members pay for my car ? You would then give a description of all the pertinent aspects of the car, not limited to work done, previous owners and their forebears etc, etc. Inform us (as a frequent member) here, all the good & bad, and then ask for estimates that we would pay for your car. A very nice 62' GT Hawk, if it runs and drives as it looks in your 1 photo, to me is worth about $10K. I love the color (non-stock), and I like the 62' the best of the GT Hawk line. Most of the old car mags & hobby prints over value this American iron by 15-20%. There is someone out there who may pay north, and maybe considerably very north of $25K. I doubt you'll find them here (read informed folk), and it may mean a 3-5 year waiting period if you market right. You could time it perfect and find that person next month.... very lucky you. My thought is that someone who drops $25K on a Studebaker doesn't have to sell the car right away.... so that's on your side. GL

rbruner
07-30-2018, 04:12 PM
Too bad you can't use the car as a business expense and write off the costs on your taxes.

Commander Eddie
07-30-2018, 04:12 PM
My vehicles are drivers (nice drivers), but whatever I spend to maintain them I look at the same way I would if they were modern drivers. It is just the cost of keeping them in good running condition. The longer I own them the more this will add up so I am not expecting to get my full investment back when it comes time to sell them. But I will have sure had a great time driving them in the meantime. I can't afford investment cars so you won't find any Tri-5 Chevy's in my garage.

6hk71400
07-30-2018, 05:16 PM
Jake,

I always enjoy your posts and how you explain what you are doing. My question is this: are you thinking of selling soon or trading for another car?

I have since 1968 when I was a mere lad of 16 only "made money" on two Studebakers. That was more by happen stance and seeing a good buy. The other cars I have enjoyed and taken my trips with my family.

You have a good understanding about the economics of being a Studebaker owner. As someone a long time ago stated " you can never pay too much for a Studebaker, only sometimes you can buy it too soon".

Bob Miles

avanti-hawk
07-30-2018, 05:49 PM
Asking the dreaded "what's it worth" on this forum is not recommended. Why? Too many CASO's.
If you offered to give it away, someone would surely whine about having to pay for the gas to get it home!

Xcalibur
07-30-2018, 06:10 PM
Look and compare at any of the usual listings: from Hemmings to TW to Hagerty's Website.

Stude Shoo-wop!
07-30-2018, 06:32 PM
You are definitely "in the Red" at this point with $25,000.00 spent, but getting 5K or so pleasure & 5 years use out of it may be the best option.
A $15,000 Car should not require $10,00.00 to make it right.


I should explain. That $10,000 was spent on the following: shipping from California to Florida, purchasing of a front disc brake conversion, new shock absorbers, some mild bodywork, carpeting, and insulation as well as labor costs for all of them. If I did the labor myself, I would have been able to save $3,000, but I figured that I would want a professional to work on something as critical as my brakes and suspension. I didn't have the opportunity to wrench on cars when I was younger, so I'm slowly building up my ability.

tsenecal
07-30-2018, 10:49 PM
My 60 Hawk will never be worth what I invested in the restore, even with all of my hours of free labor. I am fine with that, because I plan to keep it, and drive it, and I wanted it to be a good, dependable ride. As somebody mentioned, new cars depreciate very rapidly, while our old restorations hold their own, or maybe increase in value, if they are taken care of.

mike cenit
07-31-2018, 06:26 AM
The day of Studebaker as being a cheaper way into the car hobby is ending or is over, just look at what they are asking for low line 2 door Larks with Flat Head Six engines.

The car hobby is kind of like owning a minor league baseball or basketball team, it's a rich man'e toy, nobody makes money on them.

Pay the price or near the price on a non project Hawk, or Avanti and you will never come out in the positive, they are a fools investment.

If you want to make money on Studebaker's going forward , you bette ber handy and willing to start with a junker.

mike cenit
07-31-2018, 06:28 AM
Remember the old saying back when....you want to turn $16,000 into $10,000....buy a Chrysler Imperial....

swvalcon
07-31-2018, 06:58 AM
You have to look at it as you would your everyday driver. How much are you going to make on one of those and how much is it going to cost to keep it running? Your Studebaker is the same thing.

pinehurstbob
07-31-2018, 07:44 AM
When I finished the restoration of my 60 Lark convert (pictured below) it was appraised at 13500 which was just about what I had spent on it. I took a rusty northern car and did all the labour including paint and interior my self and that is the only reason I was not upside down on the car. Today a reasonable selling price would be about 15000 I think. If it were a 60 Chevy convert in the same condition, the going price would be 45000. So value is really what the market wants and Chevrolet wins on that point. But who wants drive a Chev when you can have a Lark. Or should I say 3 Larks for the price of a Chev!!!!!!. Studebakers are the under appreciated classics and likely always will be. Just my 2 cents worth.
Bob

Steve Winzar
07-31-2018, 09:13 AM
You fellers in the United States are blessed- Take a look at what us Antipodeans tend to see being asked for Studes down here !
https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-cars-vans-utes/carmake-studebaker/c18320
Steve

Commander Eddie
07-31-2018, 09:19 AM
You fellers in the United States are blessed- Take a look at what us Antipodeans tend to see being asked for Studes down here !
https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-cars-vans-utes/carmake-studebaker/c18320
Steve
Steve, just goes to prove you Ausies are always upside down. :D

Bo Markham
07-31-2018, 09:34 AM
A $15,00.00 car should not have needed any of the work you've indicated you did to make it more driveable. Now, depending on what the mild bodywork entailed, and how much it cost to ship, $10k is a pretty steep price to pay for what you did. Must have been a pretty high labor rate involved???

I'd have to say that you are in the Red to the tone of about $10k.

Kinda reminds me of a fella in Texas that bought a 57 Golden Hawk for $15k under the impression that he got a good deal for a car that wasn't driveable, then proceeded to spend another $15k fixing all the problems and correcting all the fixes to the problems the original owner had done to the car. One major problem was the frame was cracked in a dozen different locations and the fix was to tack weld a plate over the cracks to hide them??? Never did figure out the sense in that!!!

t walgamuth
07-31-2018, 09:38 AM
I don't know how anybody can judge from nothing if someone paid too much for a car. I hardly know what it's worth after a good lookover.

TWChamp
07-31-2018, 12:56 PM
I'm wondering why the disc brake change?
Seems quite a few have done that, but I've always been satisfied with my stock brakes.
I've never thought too much about what I pay for something as an investment, because I buy what I like, rather than buy it to flip it. I just look for the best buy I can get, but sometimes the good points about a car will make me pay more than I had intended to. My last two cars are my 50 Champion and 50 Land Cruiser, and they were by far the most expensive cars I ever bought, but they had some good points about them that made it worth paying extra for them.

rodnutrandy
07-31-2018, 02:42 PM
I started out with a $99 truck , so have a advantage . I can guarantee I will make money when I sale my truck , street rod or not . Not saying what I have in It . But have been offered twice what I have in it and declined , not done having fun with it yet . And yes , 75% was done in my garage or by me .

Noxnabaker
07-31-2018, 02:54 PM
Just my thoughts: Josephine still has her (new thou) original Champion brakes + a (very slightly hot) V8 & stops real fine & since I have a Studebaker because I want to have a Studebaker I couldn't care less what other people think it's worth, I'm just satesfied & happy with her even thou she aint perfect, but yep: that's me. ;)

Skip Lackie
07-31-2018, 05:47 PM
Buy high, sell low. Always worked for me.

jclary
07-31-2018, 07:23 PM
I spent years working hard and making money so that I could spend it playing with vintage cars and other "Old Iron." When I was a kid I loved working around anything that moved whether spring wound, an electric motor, engine, or pulled by a horse (or mule). Often I was pushed aside by adults, and/or spanked for picking up tools out of curiosity.:( I have never ever purchased an old car, tractor, or farm implement as an investment in anything but "FUN!":) For me, it has always been and still remains all about the enjoyment I get from tinkering and playing with this stuff. When I sell anything, I try my best to get top dollar for it, but you would be a fool to pay me enough to cover all the fun it was worth to me.

Another thing I will not do is to claim I spent more on it than I'm asking for it. Even if I did...I'm gonna keep that to myself. If I was selling something I had spent thirty-five thousand restoring and only asking fifteen thousand, I just couldn't bring myself to admit being so stupid.:oops: However, if I had more fun than I could put a price on...then I would consider it a great investment.:!:

Recently, I bought myself a new (er) motorcycle. I sold my 23-year-old bike to my neighbor. He got a great deal. But, for me, after riding it for almost two decades, I sold it for half what I originally gave for it. It was all about the investment in years of enjoyment. A win-win for both of us.:cool:

As for the subject of "Studebaker" value...I believe it will always be a volatile market. Not just for Studebakers, but any brand. In addition, I believe popularity, (in some cases notoriety) wins over less popular brands. That is the fate of Studebaker. All it will take is for some popular movie to feature a Studebaker, to give them the resurgence that Hudson gained from the CARZ animated movie of recent history. In addition to market value, there is also value in "marketing." That's what is in play at the high-end auctions when there is staff that works the crowd. You see these auctions where the crowd gets worked into a frenzy. Ego takes charge of wallets and folks often pay more than they would have in a private setting. It is the same when you sell your car on eBay or Craigslist. A well composed and presented Ad will go a long way in helping you get top dollar than bad pictures, few words, and a ton of grammatical errors.

6hk71400
07-31-2018, 08:10 PM
Here is another example of the other end of Studebaker Value: https://elpaso.craigslist.org/cto/d/1958-studebaker-commander-2/6647029979.html

El Paso is 4-5 hours away from me. Factor in the price of bringing it home, taking inventory, doing most the mechanical work, prices of parts, etc. Would I be ahead as far as what its value would be all fixed up? Probably not. Do I want a 1958 Commander Hardtop? Never owned one but probably not. Does it need to be rescued? Hmmmmm.
I still am working on getting my 1962 Lark to move. I have in the Lark $1,700 so I have lots of room to play around enjoy and know that people will not be falling all over themselves to buy it, but people will still smile when I drive it, including me.

Bob Miles

studegary
07-31-2018, 10:40 PM
Here is another example of the other end of Studebaker Value: https://elpaso.craigslist.org/cto/d/1958-studebaker-commander-2/6647029979.html

El Paso is 4-5 hours away from me. Factor in the price of bringing it home, taking inventory, doing most the mechanical work, prices of parts, etc. Would I be ahead as far as what its value would be all fixed up? Probably not. Do I want a 1958 Commander Hardtop? Never owned one but probably not. Does it need to be rescued? Hmmmmm.
I still am working on getting my 1962 Lark to move. I have in the Lark $1,700 so I have lots of room to play around enjoy and know that people will not be falling all over themselves to buy it, but people will still smile when I drive it, including me.

Bob Miles

With it being "not complete" and "title missing", to me, it appears to be a good body for someone with a rusty car.