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colt45sa
04-17-2018, 11:04 AM
I’m really befuddled by some of the prices I’ve seen being asked lately, and I wonder just how many of the sellers are getting their price and who is buying the cars if they are getting sold. I’ve been around collector cars since the late 60’s and have yet to meet any Studebaker owners who spent any serious money on their car. They put a set of tires on the car, install a new battery, wash and wax it, and ask top dollar. I had a long conversation with a fellow recently who told me that his car had a recent paint job which he said was “really nice”. It had been done by Maaco and cost $800. Now this guy wasn’t in the hills of Alabama either. He was in a very expensive area of the country. My brother operates a very professional restoration shop, and when he walks out of the paint store with paint for one of the cars, he leaves the store with $1200 less than he went in with. That’s just for paint, no reducer, no catalyst, and no supplies, and he shoots PPG products.


Many of the things done to these advertised cars are simply “maintenance” items. Changing belts and hoses, changing fluids, and doing a brake job is not restoration. They are just things that should routinely be done. The strip and paint on my ’57 Chevy hardtop was $13,000 and it was ‘showroom’ quality work. $800 for a paint job?? Many of the cars are advertised as having less than 80,000 miles on them. Does anyone ever look at things like control arm bushings to see if those claimed miles are believable?

I’m almost on the verge of stopping my search. I’m not paying ’57 Chevy prices, or Golden Hawk prices, or even Speedster prices for my Studebaker. But should I stop looking? I called a fellow several years ago to simply tell him how nice his car was that he was asking $24,000 for. He asked me to make an offer but I wasn't about to embarrass myself or insult him. I spoke to him again about 6 months later and he had accepted $10,000 for the car. I didn't have the nerve to offer him $13,000. Go figure. The last Studebaker I owned was a ’55 President State Coupe and it had documentation for the 66,000 original miles and records by the piles. It took me 2-1/2 years to sell, ans I certainly wasn't asking any $20,000 for it. I say gave away.

jackb
04-17-2018, 11:59 AM
"a fool and his money..... sounds like another go-round of "where are Studebaker prices going"

creegster
04-17-2018, 12:07 PM
Im going to GUESS that some of these people think they can treat a car like a house flip, because thats what is sounds like. Put on a low-cost paint job, some new hubcaps, and some shiny parts on the engine and then sell for a big number. Then, they realize that the car market is not the same as the house market.

Totally a guess, but that is what it look like from my perspective.

Perspective: I live in Los Angeles, where the housing market is insanity.

StoneDog
04-17-2018, 12:54 PM
A lot of it is simply marketing. People who sell things for a living are guided by two principles: 1) Buy low, sell high. 2) Know what will attract buyers. In this case, the second is important. When the average person looks for a car, they go to dealerships and, in this age, on the internet. People who sell or flip for a living do as little as possible to make a product attractive and get the most out of it.

I used to watch "Fast & Loud" in which a guy that owned a shop and his mechanic would get cars to spruce up and sell at a profit. I was always amazed how little work the owner Richard wanted to do to sell a car. Sometimes, they would simply clear-coat over a rusty car and call it "patina"! But, he knew how to sell stuff! Well, most of the time...

Now, the enthusiast is at the other end of the spectrum. The enthusiast wants each and every part (insofar as he is able) to be correct, the paint to replicate the factory or better and even the things that don't show to be right. He's never going to be able to get out of it what he put into it and rarely knows how to market his pride and joy when he decides to sell it.

There are other factors such as desirability of the car to be considered too. I don't care how much you specnd to restore a 1966 Stude Commander made in Canada that has a 6-cylinder and a three-on-the-tree. It's still just a 1966 Stude Commander and won't command high prices.

j.byrd
04-17-2018, 01:12 PM
Colt45sa, some of it may also be like myself...the place, time, medical problems, or other things affect how much we are able or want to do at this point in our lives. I would never have dreamed that I would spend the kind of money that we have for our last three cars ( one at a time of course, after selling the previous one ), but it is SO nice to be able to find a car like you have been searching for that is already finished really nice, and is ready to just insert the key and go, that it actually seems worth it. Just a few years ago, I only looked for things to "fixup" to the condition I wanted them to be, and was able to do it all ( except chrome plating ) myself. Unfortunately, ( or fortunately.. ??? ) those days are over, and I am truly enjoying and appreciating this car we have now because I just set down in it, turn the key, and go. I still do regular maintenance things, and it being a 55 model, expect to eventually have to fix something...but it sure is a new-found pleasure to be able to just pay the price ( that did seem a bit high, but worth it to us ) and take off enjoying the car. Now, a disclaimer.... I would love to find a wrecked 60's era GT-40 for about 1500 dollars and fix it up..... No danger of that happening, so I should be safe, ha !

BobPalma
04-17-2018, 01:19 PM
I’m really befuddled by some of the prices I’ve seen being asked lately, and I wonder just how many of the sellers are getting their price and who is buying the cars if they are getting sold. I’ve been around collector cars since the late 60’s and have yet to meet any Studebaker owners who spent any serious money on their car. They put a set of tires on the car, install a new battery, wash and wax it, and ask top dollar. I had a long conversation with a fellow recently who told me that his car had a recent paint job which he said was “really nice”. It had been done by Maaco and cost $800. Now this guy wasn’t in the hills of Alabama either. He was in a very expensive area of the country. My brother operates a very professional restoration shop, and when he walks out of the paint store with paint for one of the cars, he leaves the store with $1200 less than he went in with. That’s just for paint, no reducer, no catalyst, and no supplies, and he shoots PPG products.


Many of the things done to these advertised cars are simply “maintenance” items. Changing belts and hoses, changing fluids, and doing a brake job is not restoration. They are just things that should routinely be done. The strip and paint on my ’57 Chevy hardtop was $13,000 and it was ‘showroom’ quality work. $800 for a paint job?? Many of the cars are advertised as having less than 80,000 miles on them. Does anyone ever look at things like control arm bushings to see if those claimed miles are believable?

I’m almost on the verge of stopping my search. I’m not paying ’57 Chevy prices, or Golden Hawk prices, or even Speedster prices for my Studebaker. But should I stop looking? I called a fellow several years ago to simply tell him how nice his car was that he was asking $24,000 for. He asked me to make an offer but I wasn't about to embarrass myself or insult him. I spoke to him again about 6 months later and he had accepted $10,000 for the car. Go figure. The last Studebaker I owned was a ’55 President State Coupe and it had documentation and records by the piles. It took me 2-1/2 years to sell, or should I say give away.

:confused: What are you searching for, Richard? There are nice cars to be had for reasonable prices, but you must be persistent and at least somewhat realistic.

If you are looking for a fun car at an entry-level price, you must consider a 4-door of some kind. Read Richard Lentinello's column in the June 2018 Hemmings Classic Car, in subscriber mail boxes and on newsstands about now. He makes good points for 4-doors.

One of the nicest original, unrestored Studebakers I've seen in years is the Timberline Turquoise 1966 Cruiser Bill Pressler scored a year ago. He had been looking off and on for a couple years and this one fit him to a T.

Keep your options open and let us know what you're looking for and what you want to spend. If it's unrealistic, you can depend on this crowd to set you straight! ;) :cool: BP

56 Rando
04-17-2018, 01:25 PM
A lot of it is people watching all these car flipping shows on TV. They see all these old cars going for high dollars and they hear about the absurd prices being paid at Barrett-Jackson and all the other auctions. They assume any old car is worth a fortune. Little do they know that Studebakers aren't like that. That rusty, junk 4 door Lark with a 6 banger that's been sitting in their backyard since 1973 they'll ask $5000-$6000 just because its old. They finally realize later that they will never sell it and if they do, be lucky to get 1/10 of what they want. Like has been said, its about desirability. Not that many folks want Studebakers. Unless you've got something special, GH, nice Avanti, R series cars, you can't expect to sell a Studebaker for much. Back in the day, early 70's, people would give me cars or sell them for $25 just to get rid of "that junk". Not any more, now any old rusted POS is worth a fortune cause its old. Not Studebakers. I've always said Much easier to buy a Studebaker than to sell one.

Hallabutt
04-17-2018, 01:53 PM
Here I go again! I have said it numerous times, IMO there are virtually no post war Studebaker who's monetary value will sustain a good paint job, and certainly not a full restoration. Everyone who wants to, can point to a 1957 Golden Hawk the asking price for which is $65K, and think that is the market, it is not. Anyone planning to put real money into any post war Studebaker needs to know that it is a financial dead end. They should do it because they want to, but with the knowledge that their car will probably worth less then they have invested in it. Nothing that an owner does to his car, is going to make it any more valuable then the next one, of the same model, that will come up for sale, in the near future. Few post war Studebakers are so rare, that there won't be another one available for the person who has the patience to wait.

The $800 Maaco, scuff and shoot, is a far cry from the $15-20K, for a really go paint job. Unfortunately a couple of thousand dollars, for a paint job, is about what most any post war Studebaker can sustain, and still maintain value, to the owner. I try never to think about value, on anything I own, until I insure it, or decide to sell. I'm happier that way!

tsenecal
04-17-2018, 02:14 PM
The prices may go up, and least some, because of supply and demand. In the last few years of operation, the production numbers were fairly low, especially for Hawks. The more cars that get wrecked, parted out, and scrapped, I would guess that the value of the surviving ones would increase.

56 Rando
04-17-2018, 02:48 PM
I would say the opposite, As we studebaker guys get old more and more cars will come on the market. The really choice pieces will retain value. The average, run of the mill cars i believe will go down in value as more cars become available and us old dudes don't want to buy any more. The younger kids for the most part, don't give a hoot about old cars in general and especially Studes. Whose gonna be buying these cars? I believe in the next 10 years or so more and more Studies on the market and not many folks buying. That will make prices go down. My 2 cents,

Hallabutt
04-17-2018, 03:00 PM
There are plenty of <100K miles, and restored or refurbished cars, to satisfy to market's needs, as the fan base dies off. Today anything that has over 100K miles on it, unless it has had significant work done to it, is likely to be a parts car. Only the best of the most desirable models, are going to see any substantial appreciation.

voxnut
04-17-2018, 03:05 PM
I would say the opposite, As we studebaker guys get old more and more cars will come on the market. The really choice pieces will retain value. The average, run of the mill cars i believe will go down in value as more cars become available and us old dudes don't want to buy any more. The younger kids for the most part, don't give a hoot about old cars in general and especially Studes. Whose gonna be buying these cars? I believe in the next 10 years or so more and more Studies on the market and not many folks buying. That will make prices go down. My 2 cents,

I completely agree. I think folks who think that old cars/motorcycles in general will continue to appreciate are going to be in for a surprise over the next decade or two. There will be more old vehicles available than young people who are interested in them. We're experiencing the beginning of a major cultural shift.

StudeRich
04-17-2018, 03:18 PM
Here is another "Angle" for ya.
The fact that you are in Rich New Yorker escape land: Florida not known for a Large amount of Classic Cars or Cars period just HIGH Prices compared to the West Coast, looking for good quality Studes. at Fair Prices is easier if you go by the old adage; "Supply and Demand"! More Cars = better prices.

Drier Location = Better Cars.

Just say'in, maybe you have already been there, done that, I don't know. ;)

wittsend
04-17-2018, 03:31 PM
Like the case sited of the $24,000 asking price car selling for $10,000 it can be disappointing. The poster stated that he did not was to insult the seller/embarass himself by making a "reasonable offer." If peole asked "reasobable" prices I'm sure a lot more cars would move. I'm a "bottom feeder" buying the better of the least cars. But, I too have seen the $800 car now asking in the $2,500-$4,000 range. The $200 car in the $800-$1,200 range. And these cars sit and Sit and SIT on Craigslist indefinitely. A shame because most likely wind up going to the junk yard or are outright crushed. Greed, arrogance, stupidity??? Not sure.

jclary
04-17-2018, 03:32 PM
Last year I got a $100 paint job on my Dodge Ram. Although it is a $100 paint job...I had to pay $800 for it.:rolleyes::QQ:

It is what I get for filling up my building with old Studebakers, boats & motorcycles, while the newer vehicles sit out in the weather.:oops: I could sell my toys and build a new garage, but then what's the fun in that?:confused:

tsenecal
04-17-2018, 04:21 PM
56 Rando, after reading your response, I have to agree with you. The present generation, and next, are not looking for a manual, three on the tree,, drum brakes, road noise, etc., that come with driving a 'classic' car. They are more into navigation systems, sound systems, lane departure warnings, and all of the other electronic gadgets that come with new cars.

voxnut
04-17-2018, 04:26 PM
56 Rando, after reading your response, I have to agree with you. The present generation, and next, are not looking for a manual, three on the tree,, drum brakes, road noise, etc., that come with driving a 'classic' car. They are more into navigation systems, sound systems, lane departure warnings, and all of the other electronic gadgets that come with new cars.

and more importantly, most of them haven't grown up in a "make do and mend" society, so having to work on something or even knowing how is generally a foreign concept and one that to the majority of that generation, is probably not all that appealing.

Selfishly, my concern as a 50 year old is that there will still be parts suppliers 25-30 years from now so I can keep my Studebaker on the road as long as I'm upright and breathing.

PackardV8
04-17-2018, 08:36 PM
Those of us who buy an old car are akin to the several-times divorced person who remarries once again; the triumph of hopes and dreams blotting out expensive experience.

jack vines

colt45sa
04-17-2018, 08:38 PM
Here is another "Angle" for ya.
The fact that you are in Rich New Yorker escape land: Florida not known for a Large amount of Classic Cars or Cars period just HIGH Prices compared to the West Coast, looking for good quality Studes. at Fair Prices is easier if you go by the old adage; "Supply and Demand"! More Cars = better prices.

Drier Location = Better Cars.

Just say'in, maybe you have already been there, done that, I don't know. ;)
That's not true. Florida is covered up with collector cars. All the older guys with enough money to retire down here bring their cars with them. Here's what happens. The old guy is getting too old to go to the shows any more and tells his buddy "I gonna sell the car. It's too much for me at this age." The buddy who knows nothing about anything says "Wow that car is beautiful. It should get you $25K to $30K". The old guy hears that big number and it sticks in his head and he likes it. Next thing he has it advertised for $25K when in reality the car is worth $12K. At 87, he really needs the money to leave to his grand kids so the car just languishes out there. Then some outfit like Gateway talks him into consigning it with them convincing the old guy that they can relieve him of the 'tire kickers' and they have financing for buyers. The car sits for a while and the dealer calls the old guy and tells him they have a buyer who is approved for the financing but is only willing to spend $15K.. The old guy is tired of messing around and caves in, a new buyer winds up feeling he got a bargain because he had seen the car advertised for $25K and now gets it for $20K and Gateway makes $5 grand, and the seller gets $15,000. What a deal~! The last 3 cars I called about were held by these whores.

tsenecal
04-17-2018, 10:28 PM
I would hope that for all of us, there might be a family member that would enjoy 'grampas' car when we get too old to drive them, and care for them. At that point, I won't care about the value, and will be happy to pass it on to one of my children, or grandchildren. To make this transition successful, there should be some time spent with them, driving, and maintaining the car, so they know a little about what it takes to own one.

t walgamuth
04-17-2018, 11:33 PM
That's not true. Florida is covered up with collector cars. All the older guys with enough money to retire down here bring their cars with them. Here's what happens. The old guy is getting too old to go to the shows any more and tells his buddy "I gonna sell the car. It's too much for me at this age." The buddy who knows nothing about anything says "Wow that car is beautiful. It should get you $25K to $30K". The old guy hears that big number and it sticks in his head and he likes it. Next thing he has it advertised for $25K when in reality the car is worth $12K. At 87, he really needs the money to leave to his grand kids so the car just languishes out there. Then some outfit like Gateway talks him into consigning it with them convincing the old guy that they can relieve him of the 'tire kickers' and they have financing for buyers. The car sits for a while and the dealer calls the old guy and tells him they have a buyer who is approved for the financing but is only willing to spend $15K.. The old guy is tired of messing around and caves in, a new buyer winds up feeling he got a bargain because he had seen the car advertised for $25K and now gets it for $20K and Gateway makes $5 grand. What a deal~! The last 3 cars I called about were held by these whores.

Oh I don't know. Seems like it all worked out ok. Gateway needs to make money to stay in business too. Grandpa was a goof ball thinking it was worth 25.;)

candbstudebakers
04-18-2018, 01:32 AM
no comment as I have my 53 on E-bay this week and it has moved rather nice up the hill, has not made reserve yet but getting close, sell a good Studebaker at a fair price and they should move.

wdills
04-18-2018, 08:22 AM
I think the less common stuff like Studebaker is gaining ground in the market. This is just based on observations at the local shows I attend. I am seeing more and more off brand stuff showing up between the rows and rows of Mustang's, Camaro's, and tri-five Chevy's. The non big three stuff is also getting a lot of attention at those shows. There was a guy with a beautiful 56 Nomad parked next to me at a show last year. My humble little non-supercharged Hawk was getting more attention than his $80 thousand dollar Chevrolet.

I don't know if this increased interest in off-brands will ever turn into higher sell prices. We will have to wait and see for that. But it does seem like a step in the right direction.

colt45sa
04-18-2018, 08:35 AM
Oh I don't know. Seems like it all worked out ok. Gateway needs to make money to stay in business too. Grandpa was a goof ball thinking it was worth 25.;)
You're right about Grandpa being a goofball. But it's difficult to get any meaningful information when everyone seems to be afraid to announce what they really sold their car for. But I don't agree with you about Gateway and the others. I must admit that they are pretty smart. They're like the jewelers who want to buy a fine diamond I want to sell. The diamond has a value of $15K to $16K according to the Rappaport Report, but they want to buy it for $12K or less. It's my money that's been tied up in it for 43 years. I feel that that's kind of excessive.

Lou Van Anne
04-18-2018, 09:47 AM
Seems to me that the starting "asking price" is nearly always $25,000.....

wittsend
04-18-2018, 10:51 AM
Those of us who buy an old car are akin to the several-times divorced person who remarries once again; the triumph of hopes and dreams blotting out expensive experience.

jack vines

Or, in many cases, given the plethora of vehicles on the property, we are "Vehicular Polygamists!" Hopes and Dreams X ____ (fill in the blank) = ____.

tim333
04-18-2018, 11:17 AM
I had the interior replaced and a complete paint job on my 57 Commander 4dr in the last year. My plan is to drive and enjoy it, never expect to get a return on my investment. On the other hand, the 63 R2 Hawk that fell into my lap valued at $6000 was always intended to be a flip. I spent $4000 for parts, did the work myself over 9 months and sold it for $23000 in 2016.

severalsins
04-18-2018, 12:49 PM
I would say the opposite, As we studebaker guys get old more and more cars will come on the market. The really choice pieces will retain value. The average, run of the mill cars i believe will go down in value as more cars become available and us old dudes don't want to buy any more. The younger kids for the most part, don't give a hoot about old cars in general and especially Studes. Whose gonna be buying these cars? I believe in the next 10 years or so more and more Studies on the market and not many folks buying. That will make prices go down. My 2 cents,

I may be an exception, or perhaps just hair past what some might consider the "current generation", but having just bought my first Studebaker last month at the age of 37 years old, I hope I can represent the trend of those who do still find interest in older cars. Frankly, my father was never, ever interested in classic car culture and didn't know anything beyond how to check the oil of his own newer cars. My interest in it spawned from not wanting something disposable, and forcing myself into the position of having to learn and rely on myself to fix problems. I'm still VERY much a novice when it comes to the workings, but there have been a few folks along the way who have not passed judgement on me or written me off as just "some kid", and instead have encouraged me. From what I've read on the board, a lot of owners picked up the interest from their own parents, and gained knowledge working along their father's cars. I wish I'd had that experience, but alas at 37, I'm just now in a financial position where I can take the on-boarding process on for myself. I kicked down a little over $6,000 for my Lark, which I'd say is in pretty decent condition. It's no show pony, but its overall mechanically fit and the paint is decent - though I'm going to be saving up for a nicer paint job in the next few years. To me, that seemed like a steal of a deal - especially considering it came with a whole separate parts car and loads of extras on top of that! If I was to turn around and sell it today, I wouldn't take less for it.

As time progresses, I think there will be more younger folks like myself. We're not all about gadgets and gizmos. Some of us want substance, and as older folks pass on and their cars go up for sale, I'd imagine that the great condition ones will go to other collectors or museums, and the decent ones will distribute evenly. I saw another post on the board from that 17 year old who saved up $15K to buy his own. My son is 4 years old, and he loves riding in the Lark. I'm going to raise him to appreciate it and learn with me about how to keep it alive, and I'd imagine in 12 years, he'll be driving one of his own.

Lou Van Anne
04-18-2018, 01:34 PM
My 2 cents say you are correct....
I would say the opposite, As we studebaker guys get old more and more cars will come on the market. The really choice pieces will retain value. The average, run of the mill cars i believe will go down in value as more cars become available and us old dudes don't want to buy any more. The younger kids for the most part, don't give a hoot about old cars in general and especially Studes. Whose gonna be buying these cars? I believe in the next 10 years or so more and more Studies on the market and not many folks buying. That will make prices go down. My 2 cents,

voxnut
04-18-2018, 01:42 PM
I may be an exception, or perhaps just hair past what some might consider the "current generation", but having just bought my first Studebaker last month at the age of 37 years old, I hope I can represent the trend of those who do still find interest in older cars. Frankly, my father was never, ever interested in classic car culture and didn't know anything beyond how to check the oil of his own newer cars. My interest in it spawned from not wanting something disposable, and forcing myself into the position of having to learn and rely on myself to fix problems. I'm still VERY much a novice when it comes to the workings, but there have been a few folks along the way who have not passed judgement on me or written me off as just "some kid", and instead have encouraged me. From what I've read on the board, a lot of owners picked up the interest from their own parents, and gained knowledge working along their father's cars. I wish I'd had that experience, but alas at 37, I'm just now in a financial position where I can take the on-boarding process on for myself. I kicked down a little over $6,000 for my Lark, which I'd say is in pretty decent condition. It's no show pony, but its overall mechanically fit and the paint is decent - though I'm going to be saving up for a nicer paint job in the next few years. To me, that seemed like a steal of a deal - especially considering it came with a whole separate parts car and loads of extras on top of that! If I was to turn around and sell it today, I wouldn't take less for it.

As time progresses, I think there will be more younger folks like myself. We're not all about gadgets and gizmos. Some of us want substance, and as older folks pass on and their cars go up for sale, I'd imagine that the great condition ones will go to other collectors or museums, and the decent ones will distribute evenly. I saw another post on the board from that 17 year old who saved up $15K to buy his own. My son is 4 years old, and he loves riding in the Lark. I'm going to raise him to appreciate it and learn with me about how to keep it alive, and I'd imagine in 12 years, he'll be driving one of his own.

Good for you! I figure there will always be some folks like yourself, but I do think you are a bit of an outlier. I'm 50, so I'm not a ton older than you, but I was probably the last generation who had "cheap" cars from the 50's/60's/ and early 70's as a first car, so being a gearhead was really easy because the older cars were just part of the daily landscape and cheap for a kid to own, drive, and work on.

My son is 20 years old, and has always grown up around my gearhead hobbies. While he likes my wagon and my other old vehicles (old British motorcycles and Italian scooters) He doesn't really care about even having a driver's license, but he's fanatical about bicycles and that's his main mode of transportation and he's always building bikes and upgrading parts, so the gearhead gene is there, it just manifested itself a little differently.

But as you stated about wanting substance, I never feel like something is truly mine until I have worked on it. I've only owned one new car in my life, and it felt more like an appliance than a vehicle that was mine. Welcome to the joys of old car ownership! I hope you never come across anyone dismissing you as "some kid" and that folks will share the knowledge they have with you. There are a lot of tips and tricks that old mechanics know that aren't part of any manual, that I fear will leave with them when they pass on.

Happy motoring!

Hallabutt
04-18-2018, 02:31 PM
Ronnie,

Congratulations to finding Studebaker so early. You've stumbled on one of the real bargains in the collector car world. Glad you live so close, I'm looking forward to meeting you and seeing your car. One thing for sure, this will not be your last Studebaker. They're like candy, you can't eat just one. You have both time and location on your side, lots of decent cars in the PNW. My advice is to be patient and wait for the good car needing little, and try to stay within a budget. One of the traps that many of us old collectors have fallen into, is getting bogged down in projects not worthy of the resources required to make it the way we want it to be.

severalsins
04-18-2018, 03:52 PM
Good for you! I figure there will always be some folks like yourself, but I do think you are a bit of an outlier. I'm 50, so I'm not a ton older than you, but I was probably the last generation who had "cheap" cars from the 50's/60's/ and early 70's as a first car, so being a gearhead was really easy because the older cars were just part of the daily landscape and cheap for a kid to own, drive, and work on.

My son is 20 years old, and has always grown up around my gearhead hobbies. While he likes my wagon and my other old vehicles (old British motorcycles and Italian scooters) He doesn't really care about even having a driver's license, but he's fanatical about bicycles and that's his main mode of transportation and he's always building bikes and upgrading parts, so the gearhead gene is there, it just manifested itself a little differently.

But as you stated about wanting substance, I never feel like something is truly mine until I have worked on it. I've only owned one new car in my life, and it felt more like an appliance than a vehicle that was mine. Welcome to the joys of old car ownership! I hope you never come across anyone dismissing you as "some kid" and that folks will share the knowledge they have with you. There are a lot of tips and tricks that old mechanics know that aren't part of any manual, that I fear will leave with them when they pass on.

Happy motoring!

Thanks Dean! I think you're right about the generation gap not having the older cars as their first. The oldest card I had prior to this was an '84 BMW, and I was 18 at the time - and it general design didn't appeal to me the way older cars did. I also attribute the lack of care for older cars in younger generations is the phasing out of auto-shop classes in high schools. I graduated high school in 99, and they'd phased out shop class a solid decade prior. I think had that been still available, I'd probably have gained the appreciation of a wrench much sooner.

I'd love to hear about your other vehicles. What British bikes do you have? I'm a big fan of old motorcycles, too - and am eyeing a 70's Norton Commando as my next purchase, just need to save a bit more. I'd love to go pre-war, but there's no chance in hell I'd ever be able to afford an Indian of that time. Working on my '67 Suzuki motorcycle (I had to start somewhere) is what gave me the confidence to buy the Stude. I've also got a couple of 70's Batavus mopeds, too.

I bet your son will come around, especially if he loves bikes so much. There will be a day when he's been out of the nest long enough when he'll feel nostalgic about your cars, and I bet that's what'll lure him in.

I appreciate the well-wishes. I just hope the guys who've been in it twice or longer than I have remember that it's the guys like myself (and you) who're going to carry the torch after they're gone.

severalsins
04-18-2018, 03:54 PM
Ronnie,

Congratulations to finding Studebaker so early. You've stumbled on one of the real bargains in the collector car world. Glad you live so close, I'm looking forward to meeting you and seeing your car. One thing for sure, this will not be your last Studebaker. They're like candy, you can't eat just one. You have both time and location on your side, lots of decent cars in the PNW. My advice is to be patient and wait for the good car needing little, and try to stay within a budget. One of the traps that many of us old collectors have fallen into, is getting bogged down in projects not worthy of the resources required to make it the way we want it to be.

Thanks Bill! I agree, I still consider it a great bargain. The gentleman I bought it from is a fantastic guy. He's followed up with me weeks after I bought it to let me know he's found even more spare parts lying around his garage, and has sent them to me at no charge. Tony in Albany, he's a real standup guy.

Looking forward to meeting you too! I take it you'll be at the SDC Meetup in Tacoma? I've never been to a Car Club meetup, so I'm not sure what to expect. But I sure as heck wouldn't miss it! I just hope my car makes it up to Seattle and back without too much complaint.

Oh, and you aren't kidding about them being like candy. I already am thinking about this other 50's Champion in Centeral Oregon. But I'm pretty sure my wife would have my head for it if I brought it home :-) Maybe in a few years.

Jeffry Cassel
04-18-2018, 04:54 PM
I have paid up to $5k for a paint job and I have not been happy with most The only guy I liked quit, so now I do it myself. I still don't like the results so I just beat myself up and try again til I get something that looks good from 50ft in the dark. The curse of OCD. I was wondering after seeing ridiculous prices paid for bland, high production cars why Studebakers remain comparatively cheap. ($100,000 for a VW mircrobus!!!) Ridiculous. This inflation may be why the repairman thinks it is OK to gouge us and provide often very shoddy workmanship.

bob40
04-18-2018, 07:09 PM
Believe it or not there are non-Studebaker fanatics who want a Studebaker for any number of reasons and will buy one without ever knowing the insider knowledge many here possess.Blissfully ignorant that they over paid they go about enjoying their Studebaker.

voxnut
04-18-2018, 07:32 PM
Thanks Dean! I think you're right about the generation gap not having the older cars as their first. The oldest card I had prior to this was an '84 BMW, and I was 18 at the time - and it general design didn't appeal to me the way older cars did. I also attribute the lack of care for older cars in younger generations is the phasing out of auto-shop classes in high schools. I graduated high school in 99, and they'd phased out shop class a solid decade prior. I think had that been still available, I'd probably have gained the appreciation of a wrench much sooner.

I'd love to hear about your other vehicles. What British bikes do you have? I'm a big fan of old motorcycles, too - and am eyeing a 70's Norton Commando as my next purchase, just need to save a bit more. I'd love to go pre-war, but there's no chance in hell I'd ever be able to afford an Indian of that time. Working on my '67 Suzuki motorcycle (I had to start somewhere) is what gave me the confidence to buy the Stude. I've also got a couple of 70's Batavus mopeds, too.

I bet your son will come around, especially if he loves bikes so much. There will be a day when he's been out of the nest long enough when he'll feel nostalgic about your cars, and I bet that's what'll lure him in.

I appreciate the well-wishes. I just hope the guys who've been in it twice or longer than I have remember that it's the guys like myself (and you) who're going to carry the torch after they're gone.

Ronnie- no shame in having a '67 Suzuki. I love small bikes! Forever I was just a die hard Lambretta and Vespa guy, and my first motorcycle was a late 60's Puch "Twingle" that I got in the mid-90's. Motorcycle-wise I currently just have a 1953 Triumph Thunderbird, but I just sold off a 1964 BSA SS80 that I'd originally built in the hopes that my kid would be interested. My fave Brit bikes tend to be late 40's-early 60's. The late 40's bikes have a lot of the charm of the prewar machines, but are still fairly affordable, and super fun to ride. Other than that, I have my trusty '63 Lambretta, and I'm finishing up a '63 Vespa VBB as a companion. I recently sold a '51 Crosley Station Wagon, and I've had a number of MGs and Triumphs as well as an old Bug and a Morris Minor. My first car was a '69 Olds 442. My '61 Lark wagon is a keeper though. At some point I'm slated to become the caretaker of another '63 Triumph TR4 that belongs to a close family friend, so we'll see. I also goof around with restoring and running vintage racing karts from the 60's. I guess I'm what you call a non-denominational gearhead. :) Here's a photo of me and the Triumph at least year's "Distinguished Gentleman's Ride"

71811

colt45sa
04-19-2018, 07:54 AM
Seems to me that the starting "asking price" is nearly always $25,000.....
LOL:lol: Ain't it the truth~! There's always the "lucky" fisherman who catches a sucker. Buying a car must be a real art. I'll never figure out how those guys are able to buy that car advertised for $25K for only $10K or $12K. I've even looked at cars with high prices that eventually sold for less than I was willing to pay. It must be in the ultimate "timing" of the transactions, and my clock ain't workin'. One of the cars was a '61 Bonneville that the seller wanted $14K for. I showed him $11K which was turned down and later met the eventual buyer who bought the car for $8K~??????????????????? Go figure. Another was the '55 President hardtop priced at $24K which I would have paid $14K for changed hands at $10K. My stars must be saying "no car for you~!". I'm looking at a car right now with an asking price of $23K which is definitely a $13K to $14K car. AND it has an $800 Maaco paint job which I suppose I could get to live with for a while. He's too far away to flash $100 bills under his nose.

avanti-hawk
04-19-2018, 08:21 AM
I'm currently trying to sell my 63 GT Hawk to buy a 66, 6 cyl. 3 speed standard 4 door. Yep, it's a oddball car and certainly not much appeal other than to me and maybe a few others who learned to drive in one of them. But so far no serious bites on the Hawk, so I'll be waiting, and dropping my price.

jclary
04-19-2018, 08:50 AM
I'm currently trying to sell my 63 GT Hawk to buy a 66, 6 cyl. 3 speed standard 4 door. Yep, it's a oddball car and certainly not much appeal other than to me and maybe a few others who learned to drive in one of them. But so far no serious bites on the Hawk, so I'll be waiting, and dropping my price.

May I make a friendly suggestion? Unless there is some rule I'm missing, anytime you post on a topic such as this, how about posting a "thumbnail" pic of your car? Or at least a "link" to a third party host (like imgur, etc.) so that anyone here who might be curious could get a good look at what you are making available. Here, on this forum, you have an audience of surefire interest in Studebakers for sale. For whatever reason, you have fallen out of love with your present car...it is possible someone else looking on is looking for what you want to sell. It is possible that no one here will buy it, but just like winning the lottery...for sure, you will never win without a ticket. Post a pic of your Hawk...it could be your "free" ticket.:)

severalsins
04-19-2018, 01:45 PM
Ronnie- no shame in having a '67 Suzuki. I love small bikes! Forever I was just a die hard Lambretta and Vespa guy, and my first motorcycle was a late 60's Puch "Twingle" that I got in the mid-90's. Motorcycle-wise I currently just have a 1953 Triumph Thunderbird, but I just sold off a 1964 BSA SS80 that I'd originally built in the hopes that my kid would be interested. My fave Brit bikes tend to be late 40's-early 60's. The late 40's bikes have a lot of the charm of the prewar machines, but are still fairly affordable, and super fun to ride. Other than that, I have my trusty '63 Lambretta, and I'm finishing up a '63 Vespa VBB as a companion. I recently sold a '51 Crosley Station Wagon, and I've had a number of MGs and Triumphs as well as an old Bug and a Morris Minor. My first car was a '69 Olds 442. My '61 Lark wagon is a keeper though. At some point I'm slated to become the caretaker of another '63 Triumph TR4 that belongs to a close family friend, so we'll see. I also goof around with restoring and running vintage racing karts from the 60's. I guess I'm what you call a non-denominational gearhead. :) Here's a photo of me and the Triumph at least year's "Distinguished Gentleman's Ride"

71811

Dean, that is one beautiful Triumph! Absolutely gorgeous! Kudos to you. I'd love to have seen the BSA you'd just sold, too. How much did you end up letting it go for? Given your knowledge of both motorcycles and car, and if you're open to it, I'd love to pick your brain from time to time and get pointers from you. Wow, what a nice bike. If you find yourself in Portland in the future, definitely give me a buzz. I'd love to talk about all this stuff more.

t walgamuth
04-19-2018, 03:21 PM
Who would have predicted Stude values to be as high as they are now 15 years ago? I remember when I would not consider buying one because there did not appear to be any upside to them and the cost of restoration was equal to a Chevy.

Now it seems they are being appreciated for their style and light weight. Put in a modern motor and you can have a really quick car for not as much $ as a similar age Chevy or Ferd.

I would not be surprised if they keep climbing, though there is a softening of the market in general at present.

The Ferraris that were worth 12 million a couple of years ago are now only 9, though some of them are still going up with no letdown.

colt45sa
04-20-2018, 09:16 PM
Remember that the supply of decent ones is drying up quickly. Not a day goes by that you don't read about another "Johnny Shadetree" built C/K with a Vega front end or Hugo engine swap. Love that "bump steer"~!!!!!!!! I've got the cash in hand to buy a '55 but I'm very patient and am simply going to wait for the right one to come up.

PackardV8
04-20-2018, 09:36 PM
LOL:lol: Ain't it the truth~! There's always the "lucky" fisherman who catches a sucker. Buying a car must be a real art. I'll never figure out how those guys are able to buy that car advertised for $25K for only $10K or $12K. I've even looked at cars with high prices that eventually sold for less than I was willing to pay. It must be in the ultimate "timing" of the transactions, and my clock ain't workin'. One of the cars was a '61 Bonneville that the seller wanted $14K for. I showed him $11K which was turned down and later met the eventual buyer who bought the car for $8K~??????????????????? Go figure. Another was the '55 President hardtop priced at $24K which I would have paid $14K for changed hands at $10K. My stars must be saying "no car for you~!". I'm looking at a car right now with an asking price of $23K which is definitely a $13K to $14K car. AND it has an $800 Maaco paint job which I suppose I could get to live with for a while. He's too far away to flash $100 bills under his nose.

The mistake of this thread is the assumption old cars are a rational medium of exchange, bought and sold by rational people. Neither is true. Old cars are junk but have a nostalgic value to old guys with a few bucks between us and the crematorium.

I, too, have made offers, left a card with my phone number and said, "If you're ready to sell, call me and I'll be here with cash." only to find he sold it for less money and had no explanation as to why.

Alan Greenspan, the Fed chairman, was dubious of the rise in '90s stock prices, and he made a speech about irrational exuberance; the market kept rising and made him look stupid. He later wrote in his memoirs he decided that was his last attempt at trying to argue the market down; facts didn't matter.

And so I think part of this is the natural consequence of a rising market. It's irrational, it's exuberance and as long as we don't spend the grocery money on Studes and never expect a profit therefrom, enjoy!

jack vines

GrumpyOne
04-20-2018, 11:02 PM
Very interesting thread... I find myself in a place where many others probably have been.

A long time third owner of a '56 Power Hawk where I knew to two previous owners. The first was our plumber who later sold it to my backyard neighbor. Purchased by me in January 1966 with a mere 33K on the odometer it has been a faithful companion until recently when some of the annoying items like a fuel system that needed nearly everything etc. No major issues, strong drive train, suspension and good interior as I put this car into the "survivor" class.

In my mind I consider it a strong #3 condition with some gives and takes. But it's time for it to go to a new owner who hopefully will treat it a little better than I have...

71879

This is a photo of the car parked in place before undertaking the recently completed refurb...

colt45sa
04-21-2018, 07:52 AM
Very interesting thread... I find myself in a place where many others probably have been.

A long time third owner of a '56 Power Hawk where I knew to two previous owners. The first was our plumber who later sold it to my backyard neighbor. Purchased by me in January 1966 with a mere 33K on the odometer it has been a faithful companion until recently when some of the annoying items like a fuel system that needed nearly everything etc. No major issues, strong drive train, suspension and good interior as I put this car into the "survivor" class.

In my mind I consider it a strong #3 condition with some gives and takes. But it's time for it to go to a new owner who hopefully will treat it a little better than I have...

71879

This is a photo of the car parked in place before undertaking the recently completed refurb...
Very decent looking car from what we can see. Where do you plan to advertise ti? And what are you expect to ask for it? Will you be a little more specific about the "gives and takes" you mentioned~!

PackardV8
04-21-2018, 10:54 AM
JMHO, but the Power Hawk is my all-time favorite daily driver Stude. It has clean lines, enough engine; especially if equipped with the Power Pack 4-bbl and dual exhausts and overdrive. The coupe body doesn't leak and rattle like the hardtop. It's not the one I'd enter in the IM show, but it's the one I like to drive there.

jack vines

edpjr
04-21-2018, 12:32 PM
I've been losing $$$ on Studebakers since 1973. First was a '53 Coupe 6 banger. Got for $100. Poured a gazillion bucks into repairing rusted out floors, new tires, new brakes, motor rebuild, new paint, switching to 12V. Never did get the interior done. Even after having the engine reworked, that flat head 6 coupled to an auto trans wouldn't pull a greasy string. It was downright dangerous to drive on the highway. A friend of mine paid me $350 for it in 1981. Net loss of hundreds of hours labor and probably $1500 in partial restoration. You can get real rich that way.

Next loser was a '63 sliding roof Wagonaire. It had the original 6 cyl replaced with a '51 V-8 (by the late HT Woody) coupled to a 3 speed on the column trans. I paid $215 for it. It had dents, bangs, rust, bent bumpers and a crap interior. I bought it because there was another one just two serial numbers different sitting in the local junk yard. It was an OHV 6 cyl and the trans was missing. But the body was in good shape, so I paid $75 for salvage - no title. Then I got a local buddy, about 75 years old, who had run a body shop and still had a garage at his place to replace the fenders, bumpers and repaint it for $100 and a new tractor tire. The car looked really good, so I had another local guy completely re-do the interior to the tune of $225. Got tires and installed new HD Monroe shocks with springs around them. Thought I had it made. Then within weeks that old V-8 was smoking like a freight train and power was decreasing daily. Finally, it went undriveable. It sat indoors and outdoors till 1983, when, yep, I sold it for $350. The new owner installed a small block 4V Chevy and 4 speed trans. He later sold the car for a pretty penny. Typically, I lost my posterior.

My best success was in 1974 when I bought a black '59 Lark 2dr-HTP equipped with a 259 V-8, 4V engine with dual exhaust. I got the car from a little old lady school teacher who bought it brand new in '59 from Bush Olds/Pontiac for $2100 cash. Still had the original bill of sale. She parked it and bought a new Cutlass when the water pump failed. I paid her $275, replaced the water pump, had the floors repaired where obligatory leakage had caused some rust out. Also had new carpet and seats recovered. Then had it re-painted in gloss black enamel. The car was now a thing of beauty with only 58k original miles. And, it had routine service at the local Gulf Station for 14 years. Only things missing were power steering, brakes and A/C. I drove that car for 7 years. It looked great and was really fast! I sold it to a now deceased friend for $500 in 1981 when I decided to buy a new Turbo Trans Am. Oh how I wished I had kept this car!

My Avanti story is already well documented around here. I paid a lot for a car that literally needed everything; paint, rechromed bumpers, new interior, new windshield, all new bright parts, tires, electrical, super-charger rebuilt, electronic ignition to replace the single point distributor that somehow got installed, carb rebuild, gas tank chemically cleaned, new exhaust and a thousand other parts and labor. I've got a real nice car now that runs and looks good, but it cost me about $40k to get there. Today it might sell for $20k.

My '66 Commander continues to be a work in progress. It only has 36k original miles. The little 194 CID Chevy II motor runs like a charm. The clutch, press plate and throw-out bearing have been replaced. Also, the fuel pump and brakes. I have brand new front fenders ready to replace the originals. Otherwise, there's very little rust. The front bench seat is trashed on the driver's side, but the rest of the interior is remarkably good. Even so, I'm already thousands of bucks in the hole money-wise.

It's a good thing I like Studebakers. Cause I've always lost my a** on every one I ever owned. My long deceased Dad told me 45 years ago not to get into Studebakers. He was a Pontiac, Olds, Cadillac and Lincoln man. And, he was in the auto parts and supplies business for 40 years. He bought thousands of cases of STP from Studebaker Corp in the 1960's. But in all those years, he heard few customers talk highly of Studes.

E. Davis
04-21-2018, 01:29 PM
Points well taken. I bought my present Hawk about 10 years ago from a SDC member and I probably paid close to top dollar for it but it was a good rust free car with a better than average restoration. But in spite of all that I still managed to put another 5 grand in "finishing" it out and some routine maintenance items. Now I figure its in the condition I wanted and the updating has brought its value up to about what I originally paid for it. I guess the investment payback can not be measured in dollars but in the joy of having one and the thumbs up from admirers while driving.

jackb
04-23-2018, 09:10 AM
notwithstanding the "stovehuggers" section here, most of the "tech" section threads find a lot of homespun, memory laden stories which is where the real value is in Studes... no shame, that's where most of the value is in our cars today. get out and drive them !!

Hallabutt
04-23-2018, 01:07 PM
The mistake you guys who claim have lost their a... on Studebakers, make two fundamental errors, the first, you sell. If you never sell, you haven't lost. The second error is that you worry about how much the car that you own is worth. Regardless of what you perceive is the value of your car, that figure is not real until you sell it. IMO if you have to worry about the relatively small amount, it takes to get into a post-war Studebaker, you might just want to get rid of your source of worriment, and move on.

For fifty years, some people have been looking forward to some magical appreciation of Studebakers. It has never happened, and there is less chance in the future.

avanti-hawk
04-23-2018, 05:58 PM
May I make a friendly suggestion? Unless there is some rule I'm missing, anytime you post on a topic such as this, how about posting a "thumbnail" pic of your car? Or at least a "link" to a third party host (like imgur, etc.) so that anyone here who might be curious could get a good look at what you are making available. Here, on this forum, you have an audience of surefire interest in Studebakers for sale. For whatever reason, you have fallen out of love with your present car...it is possible someone else looking on is looking for what you want to sell. It is possible that no one here will buy it, but just like winning the lottery...for sure, you will never win without a ticket. Post a pic of your Hawk...it could be your "free" ticket.:)
I did post it for sale awhile back,so he7196771967res pics71966

jackb
04-24-2018, 08:09 AM
"Who would have predicted Stude values to be as high as they are now 15 years ago?"

I'll bet 1/2 the folks that owned them that long ago expected the values today to be double what they are now...JMHO...

Hallabutt
04-24-2018, 01:22 PM
In adjusted real money terms, most post- war Studebakers are actually cheaper then they were 15 years ago. Unless you were able to enjoy your car over the last 15 years. When the additional costs of storage, insurance and maintenance are added to the flat market, it makes owning a vintage car a real financial dead end.

PackardV8
04-24-2018, 04:12 PM
In adjusted real money terms, most post- war Studebakers are actually cheaper then they were 15 years ago. Unless you were able to enjoy your car over the last 15 years. When the additional costs of storage, insurance and maintenance are added to the flat market, it makes owning a vintage car a real financial dead end.


For true; the average collectible cars, motorcycles, anything old guys did as a hobby; hi fi gear, model airplanes and trains, woodworking, fishing tackle, hunting guns, hand tools, et al. The higher end, most outstanding, rarest of its type still brings top dollar. However, for what most of us could have afforded, as stated, in constant dollars, the general old guy stuff is actually depreciating in net worth.

jack vines

edpjr
04-24-2018, 04:30 PM
I am a classic example of someone who spends $$$ recklessly on something I like and want. I wanted a nice super-charged Studebaker Avanti. I'm glad it's out in the garage. I didn't buy it as an investment. So what if it cost me $40k for something that's only worth $20k? I'm the only one in my neighborhood who has one, and people rubber neck every time I drive it. Some folks have been asking crazy prices for Studes for 40+ years. I personally know folks that let viable cars rust out and return to the earth to eventually go to the crusher rather than sell at a fair price. Most of those people are long dead just like their cars. I figure the market for anything other than high performance Studes is going to decrease. >90% of car enthusiasts are looking for those quarter million $$$ Boss 429 Mustangs, Hemi Cudas, or LS-6 Chevrolets theoretically hidden in barns, garages, sheds, etc. lol. Not many collectors seeking out 4 dr Larks or Ramblers.

StudeRich
04-24-2018, 04:30 PM
Exactly Jack, "they" are going AWAY just like WE are. :(

avanti-hawk
04-24-2018, 06:00 PM
Seen my old 79Avanti II today driving down the street. Looking great with new paint, wheels, etc. I had it for sale for over a year after spending $3000 getting the body prepped and primed, blocked out, almost ready for the spray booth. My friend who was doing the work had some illness, couldn't complete it. All in, I had well over $8000 into it, finally got tired of wannabe's and sold it for $3200 with a spare set of Magnum 500's. this was a running, yard driving, loaded car.
Maybe it's just me, but anytime I want to sell a car all I get is lowball cheapskates who can't even scrape up enough to finish the deal when I finally cave in and accept the offer they made!
I sold it to a real Avanti and Stude lover who knows how to do them right as he didn't even consider lowballing me. He got it much cheaper than any of the idiots who looked and wasted my time. A full complete set of rubber moulding for the glass, hood gaskets,doors and trunk went with it.:whome:

drrotor
04-25-2018, 12:15 AM
The mistake you guys who claim have lost their a... on Studebakers, make two fundamental errors, the first, you sell. If you never sell, you haven't lost. The second error is that you worry about how much the car that you own is worth. Regardless of what you perceive is the value of your car, that figure is not real until you sell it. IMO if you have to worry about the relatively small amount, it takes to get into a post-war Studebaker, you might just want to get rid of your source of worriment, and move on.

For fifty years, some people have been looking forward to some magical appreciation of Studebakers. It has never happened, and there is less chance in the future.

Actually, Bill, we might have a little flawed thinking here, although it’s pretty humorous... if you never sell your car you don’t lose any money? That made me chuckle. Here’s the reality: if you never sell it you lose ALL your money. If you sell it, you at least get SOME of your money BACK...
And besides— can you name ANY hobby that doesn’t cost money? We have lots of fun with our Studes! So that’s all the justification I need. :) :)

Blue 15G
04-25-2018, 08:11 AM
I drive and spend money on my old car (as I did with the ones I owned years before this one) simply because I like old cars and always have. It's my hobby and it brings me a lot of enjoyment. The economics can't be rationalized.

swvalcon
04-25-2018, 08:37 AM
If you never want to lose money an a Studebaker buy what you want, fix it to what you want, Drive it and enjoy it until you die and then if any money is lost it really won't matter.

JimKB1MCV
04-25-2018, 10:18 AM
Because I'm not on the business, I think I'd feel guilty if I ever sold a car at a profit, not there is any danger of that.
The President is dusted off and ready for the Tri-Spokes tour in May.
So + several to posts 59 and 60.

colt45sa
04-25-2018, 11:33 AM
Because I'm not on the business, I think I'd feel guilty if I ever sold a car at a profit, not there is any danger of that.
The President is dusted off and ready for the Tri-Spokes tour in May.
So + several to posts 59 and 60.
The secret to making money on a car is to never spend any real money on it. Spending any more than $500 to $700 on a paint job is sure to help you lose. Don't worry about the paint prep, over spray on all the seals and gaskets, and adhesion. That can all be the next owners problem. A wrinkle here and there in the wrong interior material is no big deal. And chrome? Fa-git-aboud-it~! $100 spent here and $500 spent there may make a very nice car but you will never get it and a profit back.

Hallabutt
04-25-2018, 01:35 PM
Kenny and I speak the same language, he just moves a great deal faster then I do. I just find what I like, or learn to like what I have, and stick with it. Trading quickly is a dynamic that I understand, but my nature has never allowed me to master. Trading up, or selling quickly for profit, has always been hard for me. Many years ago I determined that I was better suited for the long run. If something special became available, I would add it to the collection. Being satisfied has it's own rewards. Money can't begin to replace the fifty five years of memories, and the fact that the memories can all be relived, with a short walk to the shop building, priceless!

Blue 15G
04-26-2018, 09:17 AM
To elaborate further on Colt45sa's original post, in my experience at least, Studebakers were always expensive cars to buy.

When the cars were new, they were often price-uncompetitive with Ford, Chevy, etc. The dealers knew that only so many people were going to buy Studebakers anyway, so they saw no need to discount the cars as much as the competition was doing.

Their high dollar depreciation as used cars (at least while Studebaker was still building cars...more about that in a minute) did make them good buys as used cars.

Then, I got my drivers license in 1970 but couldn't save up enough to buy a Studebaker as a hobby car until 1974. By then, here in PA, rust had taken most of the good ones and the ones left were relatively high-priced (for the time). And by that time, the people who still had one to sell took the tack of "well, they don't make these anymore, so they have to be worth a lot." I recall looking at a '63 GT Hawk for sale in 1975 that had rusted out front fenders and floors, and the car dealer telling me "Yup son, them thar Stooo-deee-bakers are collectors items now", etc. I think he was asking $900 for what was then a $200 car. The numbers sound low now, but they weren't back then. Of course, as I mentioned, I was in the rust belt. Looking at ads in Turning Wheels at the time, I was amazed at the better condition cars available elsewhere in the country.

And as time went on, we all know how the prices gradually rose.

So, it still comes down to: How badly do you want a certain old car and is it worth it to you to pay the price? To me it's worth it. I love old cars and have always owned one. Sometimes more than one at the same time. And there are still some good deals out there, but you have to search hard and be patient.

The only ones who really made out like a fat rat on Studebakers were the people who had property, barns, or some place to keep them, and they bought a bunch of them in the 1964 to 1970 time period when the sellers were just driving them out until they were used up. You could take such cars, sit on them a few years and then make a nice profit re-selling them.