PDA

View Full Version : Overdrive



cadill
12-19-2017, 06:38 PM
Is it OK to drive in overdrive, all the time. I live in a flat area in CA and the people drive fast.

Chris Pile
12-19-2017, 06:43 PM
Just leave it on. It will shift down when you slow below 25 MPH, as I remember.

TWChamp
12-19-2017, 06:46 PM
It's OK to do that and it will just freewheel when it drops out of overdrive. In other words, no engine braking while it's freewheeling.

BTW, this would be a bad idea when going downhill or in a large city with a lot of stop and go traffic.

StudeRich
12-19-2017, 08:28 PM
The Good News is; if you get in a possibly somewhat dangerous situation approaching a Hill or Mountain in Overdrive, it is simple without ANY Damage to the Unit to just Floor it, do not release all the way until, you pull out the O.D. Handle and presto, you are back in Direct with plenty of Deceleration for when you crest the grade! :cool:

PackardV8
12-20-2017, 12:12 AM
Yes, for sure. FWIW, I've driven every Stude I've ever owned in overdrive 99.9% of the time.

jack vines

Chris Pile
12-20-2017, 12:30 AM
Just a warning - if you ever have to jump your Studebaker or try to push start it..... turn the OD off. It will keep the engine from starting.... Ask me how I found out....

JRoberts
12-20-2017, 07:48 AM
I leave my Champ in overdrive all the time.

jackb
12-20-2017, 08:01 AM
In most, except pure stop & go traffic, ....... 2nd gear "IN" OD is pretty good for the left leg....FWIW... I always make sure I operate the OD cable (and any other conduit type cable) each time I get in the truck...... amazing how fast 60 year old cables get stuck (see thread on stripped OD handle)

jclary
12-20-2017, 08:34 AM
Yes, for sure. FWIW, I've driven every Stude I've ever owned in overdrive 99.9% of the time.

jack vines


I leave my Champ in overdrive all the time.

Amusing discussion.:) Before I had a vehicle with an "overdrive" transmission, I was kind of obsessed with the concept. When I finally got one, (over four decades ago), I was almost disappointed.:confused: The reason being, due to me always wanting to "tinker" with stuff...I thought an overdrive would require a lot of "driving involvement" on my part.:( However, it turned out to be so simple, that there was no added "skill" I could demonstrate to my friends to impress them. Don't get me wrong...I love the contraptions, but in my youthful ignorance, I expected more excitement!:o

Now, I sort of compare the concept of "overdrive" to the "AUTONOMIC" functions of our biological bodies, such as breathing, blinking, and the beating of our hearts. Something we become accustomed to (take for granted?), and find easy to ignore until something goes wrong.:ohmy: Properly maintained, overdrives are very durable, rarely give trouble, and work as designed. I love mine and appreciate the benefits of having them.:!:

TWChamp
12-20-2017, 11:25 AM
In most, except pure stop & go traffic, ....... 2nd gear "IN" OD is pretty good for the left leg....FWIW... I always make sure I operate the OD cable (and any other conduit type cable) each time I get in the truck...... amazing how fast 60 year old cables get stuck (see thread on stripped OD handle)

That's a good idea.
I also put oil along the whole length of the cables every once in a while.

PackardV8
12-20-2017, 11:30 AM
I thought an overdrive would require a lot of "driving involvement" on my part.

Just add a floor shift with a kickdown button on the knob. When I'm in the mood, there are six forward gears.

jack vines

TWChamp
12-20-2017, 12:08 PM
Actually just add a simple off-on switch to the governor and you can lock it in overdrive at any speed.

StudeRich
12-20-2017, 01:29 PM
Just a warning - if you ever have to jump your Studebaker or try to push start it..... turn the OD off. It will keep the engine from starting.... Ask me how I found out....

Does anyone have a Clue what Chris is talking about here? :confused:

If jump starting the Car with another Battery and Cables, the Overdrive is not electrically engaged when parked, so could not make ANY difference unless something is wired wrong.

cadill (Frank): I see we forgot to mention to NEVER Park the Car in Neutral (of course) or ANY Gear except REVERSE!

If the Parking Brake is not strong enough to hold or not applied, the Car CAN roll away if not in Reverse!

az64stude
12-20-2017, 01:33 PM
I would say he is trying to tell anyone that has not manually disengaged the OD via the pull out cable. That they will not be able to push start the car, it will FREE WHEEL. That is what I make of it, then again I may be totally wrong.

Chris Pile
12-20-2017, 03:40 PM
Does anyone have a Clue what Chris is talking about here?

You understand English, Rich? Disengage the OD (pull out the knob) before jumping or push starting, or it won't start. Simple.

StudeRich
12-20-2017, 05:43 PM
Sorry, but that SHOULD never happen when Jump Starting a Car with a Jumper Cable!
Increasing the Amperage will not affect anything except spin the Starter better.

Pulling the O.D. Handle out (or pushing in) should have NO electrical effect at all, it is all Mechanical when Parked.

I am sure everyone understands about the Push Starting (which should never be done anyway).
Obviously you have no Compression, only freewheeling when O.D. handle is IN below 32 MPH, so no one would knowingly try to push start a Car in O.D.

Chris Pile
12-20-2017, 08:13 PM
Maybe it shouldn't (according to you), but that IS what happened to me. And when I mentioned it to the previous owner, he laughed and said, "Yup. Gotta turn off the OD first".

altair
12-21-2017, 01:46 PM
I don't think for all practical purposes you can get six speeds from an over drive. I had wired a Dodge with a Borg Warner three speed with over drive and I could only realize 5 forward speeds. Getting it in to first gear over drive is almost impossible with out risk of throwing a rod. The process would be first gear conventional, second gear conventional, second gear overdrive, top gear conventional then into top over drive and that only adds up to 5. An additional note about freewheeling, if there is continuous back pressure on the system while proceeding down hill the overdrive will continue to offer back pressure even under 28 - 30 mph, it will not jump out and start to freewheel until the pressure is released. Down a long grade if you accelerate in overdrive to over 30 mph then decelerate the back pressure will continue to hold even under 30 mph, however if you just touch the throttle it will kick out and start to freewheel.

StudeRich
12-21-2017, 02:44 PM
I can see that clearly, our often said here Phrase needs to be said in this case: "Your experience MAY be different"! :rolleyes:

That is because both Chris Pile and altair had/have Cars that do not operate as designed.

Overdrive Studes. wired through a Governor and a kickdown switch properly do not function this way.
When decelerating down from above 32 MPH in Overdrive as altair says, there would be some "engine holding", slowing BUT when you go below about 28 it should "drop out" and coast in either 2nd. or High.

I am thinking that Chris's Car may have some kind of "Manual Toggle Switch" incorrectly installed or seriously crossed or miss-connected wires, or NO kickdown switch.

ddub
12-21-2017, 03:14 PM
[QUOTE=altair;1087925]I don't think for all practical purposes you can get six speeds from an over drive.

The OD governor failed on my Champ so I bypassed it with a toggle switch under the dash. When I flipped the switch I could be in OD. I was able to switch to 1st OD at 5 mph if I wanted too. Not very practical.

"I am sure everyone understands about the Push Starting (which should never be done anyway).
Obviously you have no Compression, only freewheeling when O.D. handle is IN below 32 MPH, so no one would knowingly try to push start a Car in O.D."

When I was 15 my mother towed me around the neighborhood in a 40 Champion trying to compression start it. Guess what.

tbredehoft
12-21-2017, 03:52 PM
Early on, I bought a '50 LC, 3 speed OD from a dealer who had kept his demonstrator as his personal car. It was loaded. The only options that it didn't have were the hideous tubular bumper guards. Anyway,

It had a rotary switch on the shift lever with a wire to it. If you rolled the switch forward (or was it backward) the car would stay in OD 100%. No reverse, but for normal town/country driving it just stayed in OD. This was in northwest Ohio, no hills to speak of, and the car worked well in either mode.

I've never heard of this switch, other than my own experience, and wondered where it came from. I always, (until I joined SDC and found otherwise) considered it to have been an option. If memory serves we did have to turn it off and pull out the OD handle for push starts.

Chris Pile
12-21-2017, 08:48 PM
I am thinking that Chris's Car may have some kind of "Manual Toggle Switch" incorrectly installed or seriously crossed or miss-connected wires, or NO kickdown switch.

There's your problem! You were thinking!

If I still owned the car, I'd take a picture of the STOCK OD knob on the dashboard. I was the 3rd owner of the '49 Champion Sedan.

oilnsteel
12-21-2017, 10:36 PM
When I was a teenager i found it was entirely possible, but not advisable, to get into 1st gear overdrive.

JT

Dwain G.
12-22-2017, 12:29 AM
Those aftermarket overdrive controllers were fairly popular in the late '40s-early '50s. Here's an ad for one style...
69192

cadill
12-26-2017, 07:09 PM
When I'm in overdrive, I can't put in reverse unless I turn the car off. Is this typical?

TWChamp
12-26-2017, 08:45 PM
When I'm in overdrive, I can't put in reverse unless I turn the car off. Is this typical?

I assume you mean the overdrive handle is pushed in and you are stopped. Then you should be able to shift to reverse with no problem.

If you are stopped and the overdrive handle is pulled out, can you then shift to reverse OK?

Lou Van Anne
12-26-2017, 09:13 PM
Me too.......
I leave my Champ in overdrive all the time.
6929869298

S2Deluxe
12-26-2017, 09:18 PM
When I'm in the mood, there are six forward gears.

jack vines


I don't think for all practical purposes you can get six speeds from an over drive.




When I was a teenager i found it was entirely possible, but not advisable, to get into 1st gear overdrive.

JT

This is something I also attempted, successfully once. In my late teens, with a completely original '54 Commander Starlight. I just held it to the floor, until the speedometer needle was past the same point, after which it would kick in, in second or third when the throttle was released. I had been told that this was possible, by both Carl and Herman Thoms and neither had ever been wrong about anything concerning this car! I was also told, it would require RPMs slightly in excess of 4,000. Without a tachometer in the car, it's pretty intimidating, if you don't want to destroy the engine and you don't know if it's capable of the required RPMs. But, yes as far as I am aware, all Studebaker factory installed 3 speed Overdrive transmissions are capable of utilising 6 different forward gear ratios and I also believe these ratio specifications are shown in the respective shop manuals.

Mark

gordr
12-26-2017, 09:21 PM
No. As long as you come to a full stop after driving forward. you can shift into reverse with the OD handle pushed in. But wait! You said your car has an aftermarket manual switch controlling the overdrive? If that is the case, then, no, you cannot engage reverse while that switch is in the overdrive position, regardless of road speed, or lack thereof. Which explains why the factory setup didn't use a manual switch. They made the function automatic, with several electro-mechanical logic controls to ensure that such things could not happen.

cadill
12-26-2017, 09:40 PM
I assume you mean the overdrive handle is pushed in and you are stopped. Then you should be able to shift to reverse with no problem.

If you are stopped and the overdrive handle is pulled out, can you then shift to reverse OK?

Yes, when not in overdrive but when in overdrive and stopped cannot pull out handle unless I turn the car off. Thanks for the response.
Frank

TWChamp
12-26-2017, 09:44 PM
Whoa........I missed that it had a switch added to engage overdrive at any time. Sounds like a good road to disaster for anyone not familure with overdrive. I'd ditch the switch and go back to factory original, which works just fine.

cadill
12-26-2017, 11:06 PM
I think you are answering a different person. No switch added on my car. ;-)

TWChamp
12-26-2017, 11:08 PM
I think you are answering a different person. No switch added on my car. ;-)

Good thing, then that's why I missed it. LOL

gordr
12-27-2017, 01:53 AM
I think you are answering a different person. No switch added on my car. ;-)

Sorry. Got this thread confused with another, I think. Well, if your car is stock, you definitely don't have to shut the ignition off to put it in reverse, if everything is working right. since you say you have to do that, it means there is a fault. Either the governor contacts are stuck, or the wire to the governor is shorting to ground somewhere. Or there is a wiring fault. The solenoid contains a grounding contact. If it somehow got wired into the governor side of the circuit, the solenoid might "lock in" and stay that way until the ignition is shut off. We'd need to know the year and model to go any further.

Dwain G.
12-27-2017, 02:38 PM
1952 models still had a lock-out switch on the left rear of the overdrive unit. Might check wiring at that point. It helps to have the shop manual or the 'Overdrive' booklet.

RadioRoy
12-27-2017, 03:03 PM
Is it OK to drive in overdrive, all the time. I live in a flat area in CA and the people drive fast.

Yes. That is exactly what it was designed to do.

cadill
12-27-2017, 06:52 PM
My car is a 52 Champion

RDWEAVER
12-27-2017, 06:56 PM
This is something I also attempted, successfully once. In my late teens, with a completely original '54 Commander Starlight. I just held it to the floor, until the speedometer needle was past the same point, after which it would kick in, in second or third when the throttle was released. I had been told that this was possible, by both Carl and Herman Thoms and neither had ever been wrong about anything concerning this car! I was also told, it would require RPMs slightly in excess of 4,000. Without a tachometer in the car, it's pretty intimidating, if you don't want to destroy the engine and you don't know if it's capable of the required RPMs. But, yes as far as I am aware, all Studebaker factory installed 3 speed Overdrive transmissions are capable of utilising 6 different forward gear ratios and I also believe these ratio specifications are shown in the respective shop manuals.

Mark
I do this often. I mean.... if I an hot rodding around town. But I have a 307 rear end. Twenty eight mile an hour is no problem in first gear under-drive.

S2Deluxe
12-28-2017, 09:03 PM
I do this often. I mean.... if I an hot rodding around town. But I have a 307 rear end. Twenty eight mile an hour is no problem in first gear under-drive.

Yep, should occur at a much lower RPM than it did with the 4.27 gears I used!

Mark

cadill
12-28-2017, 09:20 PM
I think I discovered my problem. When I slowdown in overdrive the car does not shift to free wheeling and when I stop in overdrive, i cannot shift to reverse without turning the car off. Would bypassing the lockout switch solve this problem?

gordr
12-28-2017, 10:39 PM
I think I discovered my problem. When I slowdown in overdrive the car does not shift to free wheeling and when I stop in overdrive, i cannot shift to reverse without turning the car off. Would bypassing the lockout switch solve this problem?

Bypassing the reverse lockout switch would not solve your problem, as it is not likely the source of it, barring a major mis-wiring job. When starting out from a standstill, with a newly-started engine, does the transmission freewheel until OD cut-in speed of about 27 mph is reached? If yes, then we can assume the governor is working as it should. If no, then the governor is suspect, or perhaps the wire going to it is grounding out somewhere. Report back on that, and we can proceed from there.

TWChamp
12-28-2017, 10:48 PM
I agree with Gord. You need to see why the overdrive relay still has a ground signal to stay engaged and send voltage to the overdrive pull in solenoid. You could unscrew the governor to relay wire and see if the overdrive then disengages. Maybe the overdrive relay contacts are stuck closed, but I've never seen that happen. As Gord mentioned, the governor may be at fault, or the wire from it to the overdrive relay may be grounding out somewhere.

Pckstude
12-30-2017, 02:07 AM
I'm more confused than ever about o/d's. Especially when it comes to going from straight drive to o/d in the same gear to say that one can have six gears, etc. Why would a person do that, and make driving more difficult? BTW I have a 1965 Canadian stude wagon, and need the bell housing, trans wo/d,with the cable, and possibly the driveshaft to return my wagon back to it's original 3 on the tree configuration. Some knucklehead put a GM bell housing, and 3spd manual in it, and cobbled in a floor shift. Might also need a pressure plate as I don't know if the splines of a stude trans (T85?) would work with the current Gm setup.

Jerry Forrester
12-30-2017, 06:07 AM
Why would a person do that?

Because I can.

TWChamp
12-30-2017, 07:54 AM
Has anyone made a chart of the ratios?
I wonder how different 2 overdrive is from 3 non overdrive.

Jerry Forrester
12-30-2017, 10:48 AM
Has anyone made a chart of the ratios?
I wonder how different 2 overdrive is from 3 non overdrive.

Probably nil. It's the act of doing it that gives you the satisfaction, not any advantage one might have received.