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View Full Version : More Proof of Just How CASO Studebaker People Are



Mike Sal
11-29-2017, 01:13 PM
It continues to amaze me how cheap *ss Studebaker people have been over the years. I have been gathering a registry for all 1966 Studebaker cars for a while now. In 1966 most brands including Studebaker made seat belts standard equipment.

One thing I've been noticing is how many cars were ordered with "Delete Rear Seat Belts". Even though they were free equipment, you could shave $14.90 off the price of the car by deleting them. Who needs safety equipment anyway.....it's just the kids riding back there.....
Mike Sal

PackardV8
11-29-2017, 01:22 PM
For true, Mike. But one would have to know how many fleet sales there were. A dealer trying to shave the numbers for a bid would not care about the kids/grandmothers in the back seat if it meant the difference in winning a bid equal to a year's volume for his dealership.

jack vines

warrlaw1
11-29-2017, 01:29 PM
I've never seen an officer fasten the seatbelt for someone they tossed on the back seat :)

Hallabutt
11-29-2017, 01:44 PM
We know now how important seat belts are, but remember there was a great deal of concern about being trapped in your car, by your belts. No real world data fifty years ago.

Buzzard
11-29-2017, 01:51 PM
Mike,
I'm not trying to railroad your post but one must consider the times. Circa 1964, we lived in what is now an affluent (now you can't even buy a tear down for under 2 Mil) part of greater Vancouver in a bungalow my folks paid $12,000 for a couple of years earlier. My Dad owned a 1956 Studebaker Commander, 4 dr sdn, 289 4BBL column shift OD and was looking to upgrade to a newer auto. He & Mom chose and ordered a 1964 (new at the time) Canadian Pontiac(more like your Chevrolet than American Wide Track Pontiacs) Parisienne 2 DR HT, 283 automatic. My Dad deleted the Power Steering option because it was thought to rob too much power from the engine and he wanted to retain the passing power of his Studebaker. Now I don't know if you recall the full size GM's of that era but if I recall it was 6 1/2 turns lock to lock so you can imagine parallel parking. Looking back he probably saved $35.00. So what I'm getting at is it wasn't just Studebaker owners although many of them may have been more frugal.
Bill

t walgamuth
11-29-2017, 02:19 PM
My first used Mercedes was a 72 220d. It had manual steering, a very rare delete option, nice except when parking. I bought it from a dealer in Logansport not far from here. I always suspected a frugal farmer might have ordered it that way.

- - - Updated - - -


Mike,
I'm not trying to railroad your post but one must consider the times. Circa 1964, we lived in what is now an affluent (now you can't even buy a tear down for under 2 Mil) part of greater Vancouver in a bungalow my folks paid $12,000 for a couple of years earlier. My Dad owned a 1956 Studebaker Commander, 4 dr sdn, 289 4BBL column shift OD and was looking to upgrade to a newer auto. He & Mom chose and ordered a 1964 (new at the time) Canadian Pontiac(more like your Chevrolet than American Wide Track Pontiacs) Parisienne 2 DR HT, 283 automatic. My Dad deleted the Power Steering option because it was thought to rob too much power from the engine and he wanted to retain the passing power of his Studebaker. Now I don't know if you recall the full size GM's of that era but if I recall it was 6 1/2 turns lock to lock so you can imagine parallel parking. Looking back he probably saved $35.00. So what I'm getting at is it wasn't just Studebaker owne
s although many of them may have been more frugal.
Bill

Probably saved more like $8. heh heh!

Mark57
11-29-2017, 02:25 PM
Interesting discussion... as I pointed out to Mike yesterday, my '66 was delivered to a Portland Oregon (Mark's Motors) dealer inventory with no specific buyer lined up, yet the rear seatbelt delete option was preselected at the factory. It was a Commander 4 dr 6 cylinder (so pretty plain jane), but had been upgraded with the 230 I6/Automatic combo along with full wheel discs and a horn ring. :) No back-up lights or radio though. :( There was apparently some sort of swap between Mark's Motors and The Studebaker Center in Seattle because the car was sold new by the latter about 1 month after arriving on the west coast.

Bill Pressler
11-29-2017, 03:12 PM
The '66 Cruiser I bought this past April has the rear-seat belt delete notation on the production order, although it was built with wire wheelcovers and no radio! The dealer apparently added a radio from the parts dept. as it is a Stude radio with the '66-only black knobs. The car was built in Nov. '65 and not sold until April 16, 1966 to Vernon and Fay Hutchinson of Grand Junction, CO from Osborne Motors there. The SNM tells me it was the last new Studebaker sold by the dealership and paperwork I got from them shows the Hutchinsons traded in a '53 Studebaker on it.

Alan
11-29-2017, 03:26 PM
My father bought a 53K in Sept. of 53. It had no seat belts, no turn signals, no radio and he blew his mind when he saw the cigarette lighter. They removed it and dropped the price $0.50. That was the top of the line Regal. And Buzz, I was in Vancouver and New Westminster in 1972, then drove over to Pentiction. As I was driving along the Fraizer River, it looked like coffee grounds and smelled like last years catch. It was like heaven coming over the hill and looking at Okanagan Lake.

alaipairod
11-29-2017, 03:41 PM
I've never seen an officer fasten the seatbelt for someone they tossed on the back seat :)
........Having had the privilege to ride in the back seat of a patrol car a few times........I can agree with Dave........Rear seat belts in CA patrol cars were non existent back in the day....

kmul221
11-29-2017, 03:43 PM
I once went to view a 57 Packard sedan 4 sale,it had ,radio & P/W but no steering or brakes,was purchased new by sellers grandfather,a rather dd combiation I thought.

alaipairod
11-29-2017, 03:52 PM
...When we were doing the restoration on our '57GH, I made it a point to install seat belts, both in the front and rear seats.
I was unable to do the period correct installation on the front seat, as hardware wasn't available to connect the hook up belt to the door..
A 5 hole pattern exists on both doors for this hook up...........I plugged them, and installed regular belts....On the rear belt installation, I was advised to tuck them away, when being judged at a Studebaker event, as that would constitute a 2 point penalty...........On the road....Me and my grandkids are hooked up....

sals54
11-29-2017, 03:58 PM
........Having had the privilege to ride in the back seat of a patrol car a few times........I can agree with Dave........Rear seat belts in CA patrol cars were non existent back in the day....

There was a good reason for the lack of seat belts, or the lack of belting in the perps... My brothers, all cops, have confirmed that if the rear passenger was, in any way belligerent, or spitting, or other, they would find a good reason to "have to" hit the brakes. Dog, pedestrian, squirrel, whatever it was, was good enough opportunity to aquaint the idiots face with the wire screen between the front and rear seats. I always got a good laugh about that. Its a great visual.

57pack
11-29-2017, 03:59 PM
As I have mentioned before concerning my Dad’s last new Studebaker.
It was a 1964 Commander four door sedan, white with blue cloth interior. Had no radio, only front seat belts, rubber floor covering, no reverse lights,and no power steering.
It was a v8, three on the tree, with od .
Options were, full wheel covers, quad headlamps, hood ornament, and front and rear bumper guards. Plus a heater.
It was a in stock car on the lot of Pryzwara Motors in Runnemede NJ.

Commander Eddie
11-29-2017, 04:12 PM
Back then people just did not understand why they should use seat belts. About that time I personally witnessed two head on collisions in the middle of the night, with no traffic. The drivers had been drinking and all died of their injuries. Their cars had no seat belts. Oddly enough, I had installed belts in the car I was driving at the time. It was a 1955 Studebaker Commander Coupe. I took these incidents as a lesson in why I chose to install them. But that was not the common thinking back in 1966/67.

Skip Lackie
11-29-2017, 04:23 PM
No argument with the basic point, but not everyone has the classic family. In 1963 I bought a used 62 Impala convertible. Seat belts were an extra-cost option in 1962, and the car came without any belts. I installed some JC Whitney belts in front, but didn't put any in the back. As far as I can remember, in 54 years of ownership, no one has ever sat in the rear seats.

Chris Pile
11-29-2017, 06:12 PM
This story is well known.... In the 50's when Ford made seatbelts standard in their automobiles, GM dealers immediately claimed that Ford cars must not be safe in their sales pitches. Sounds pretty stupid in the light of day, right?

swvalcon
11-29-2017, 06:38 PM
No need to worry. You don't need seat belts in the back of a patrol car. The cage will stop your face way before you get to the windshield.

8E45E
11-29-2017, 06:45 PM
None of my Studebakers ever came with rear seat belts, either: http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?55844-more-production-order-fun-(post-yours-here-)

Craig

gordr
11-29-2017, 07:32 PM
If you could shave $14.90 off the price of the car by deleting the rear seat belts, they weren't free, were they?

Mike Sal
11-29-2017, 09:12 PM
Seat belts were made standard equipment, but had line code numbers (081 front; 082 rear) which would normally be added to the build order sheet. If the car was ordered by a customer or a dealer the code could be deleted & the cost removed from the price of the car.
Mike Sal

plee4139
12-01-2017, 04:19 AM
Mike,
I'm not trying to railroad your post but one must consider the times. Circa 1964, we lived in what is now an affluent (now you can't even buy a tear down for under 2 Mil) part of greater Vancouver in a bungalow my folks paid $12,000 for a couple of years earlier. My Dad owned a 1956 Studebaker Commander, 4 dr sdn, 289 4BBL column shift OD and was looking to upgrade to a newer auto. He & Mom chose and ordered a 1964 (new at the time) Canadian Pontiac(more like your Chevrolet than American Wide Track Pontiacs) Parisienne 2 DR HT, 283 automatic. My Dad deleted the Power Steering option because it was thought to rob too much power from the engine and he wanted to retain the passing power of his Studebaker. Now I don't know if you recall the full size GM's of that era but if I recall it was 6 1/2 turns lock to lock so you can imagine parallel parking. Looking back he probably saved $35.00. So what I'm getting at is it wasn't just Studebaker owners although many of them may have been more frugal.
Bill

My father bought a 1957 Plymouth for me to get to Hofstra. It was the Savoy V8, no power steering. I think I may have weighed 120 lbs then, and living in Queens, there was lots of parallel parking, and no-go in the snow. I asked him to get snow tires but he refused. He could well afford these things, but he seemed to cheap out on things which were not that important to him. I've seen more than one Bel Air equipped like a model 150 at car shows. People can be quirky in their choices.

Jeff_H
12-01-2017, 12:03 PM
My paternal grandpa bought a 1yr old '65 Ford Galaxie 500 2dr hardtop in '66 (he was 70yrs old). I currently own the car (but has not been on the road >10yrs now ). The car has the 352 FE block V8, 4bbl carb, duel exhaust, and AT. It also has a vinyl roof, chrome side moldings, and full wheel covers. That is it for options. No PS or PB any of the other common options on a relatively fancy car. Its not the XL sub-model so a bench seat instead of buckets though. Front seatbelts only and they are the base style ones that do not have rollers.

I installed PS in it to make it easier to park back when I used to take it to shows. In the rural farming areas, I guess parking was not such a concern as not often anyone needed to parallel park. It was perfectly fine on the highway but a real chore to drive in town/city due to the slow steering.

There was a '47 chevy 3/4t pickup on the farm when I was growing up. The emblems on the hood even said "Thriftmaster". Painted grill, etc and no stainless moldings like a more deluxe truck had. Also, only 1 sunvisor. Truck was sold when Dad retired and I know who has it now. Dunno if I would want to see it though.

8E45E
12-01-2017, 01:13 PM
I can think of two examples where being 'cheap' came back to bite them.

In the past 30 years or so, air conditioning has become the 'rule' rather than the exception, especially in full-size cars. My former neighbor bought a 1984 Oldsmobile Delta 88 brand new without air conditioning, as did a friend of the family who bought a 1987 Pontiac Grand Prix without a/c; both figuring it wasn't worth the expense for the few hot days one gets in Alberta. When both went to sell their cars 5-6 years later, both low-mileage examples, the FIRST question asked was if it had a/c. When they replied, 'no', the potential buyers immediately hung up the phone. In the end, it took months for them to sell their cars, and they received far less in market value for their non-air conditioned cars than what the a/c would have cost new. I remember it was around the same time the company I once worked for started ordering air conditioning in their fleet of delivery trucks, strictly to make it easier to trade in at resale time.

Craig

greyben
12-01-2017, 01:25 PM
I believe seat belt anchors became required in 1961. Front seat belts were not required until 1964. It would have made little sense to factory install rear belts if it was not mandatory or specifically ordered by a customer. If a purchaser desired the rear belts the dealer's shop gofer could install them in a few minutes. Most people at the time considered belts a nuisance particularly for short drives. They weren't retractable and had a tendency to hang over the side and get caught in the door. The belts did nothing to improve safety if the occupants didn't use them. Probably only about 25% of the occupants used belts when available.

Also to keep it in perspective with the times $14.90 represented 4-8 hours work for the typical wage earner. 1966 dollar values can't be held equal to current values.

53k
12-01-2017, 02:04 PM
I believe seat belt anchors became required in 1961. Front seat belts were not required until 1964. It would have made little sense to factory install rear belts if it was not mandatory or specifically ordered by a customer. If a purchaser desired the rear belts the dealer's shop gofer could install them in a few minutes. Most people at the time considered belts a nuisance particularly for short drives. They weren't retractable and had a tendency to hang over the side and get caught in the door. The belts did nothing to improve safety if the occupants didn't use them. Probably only about 25% of the occupants used belts when available.

Also to keep it in perspective with the times $14.90 represented 4-8 hours work for the typical wage earner. 1966 dollar values can't be held equal to current values.
The '61 Lark Cruiser I bought new in '61 did not have seat belt anchors. I bought an aftermarket set of belts, drilled the holes in the floor behind the front seat and installed the belts.

However, I was a true CASO with the car. It did not have air conditioning which I needed. I was selling my POS '57 Plymouth Belvedere 4-door hardtop which had an aftermarket a/c installed. I took the a/c out of the Plymouth, kept it all. Then when I was at sea for an extended period, my wife took the car to the original selling dealer and had them install the used air conditioner. I also had her take the car to the dealer for a tuneup and I furnished the plugs and points. See the scans below.

thunderations
12-01-2017, 02:42 PM
My 66 Daytona, built by Studebaker to be a promotional show car for the company has many options and a none Studebaker color to catch peoples eye. All of this is on the build sheet, some hand written and other typed with a different pica. It has the original 65 vin number crossed out and the new 66 vin number written in. It was one of the missing twelve, (some say there were more) 1965 cars that were converted to 1966's by the factory. Studebaker retained ownership of the car until after the Hamilton plant closed in March 1966 before shipping it to a dealer to sell.
IT DID NOT COME WITH REAR SEAT BELTS.

RadioRoy
12-01-2017, 03:20 PM
Also to keep it in perspective with the times $14.90 represented 4-8 hours work for the typical wage earner. 1966 dollar values can't be held equal to current values.

According to the CPI indicator, that $14.90 in 1966 dollars equals $115.57 in 2017 dollars. That's why one can never compare prices from yesterday to today. The actual dollar amount does not have the same purchasing power now as it did then.

https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=14.90&year1=196601&year2=201710

8E45E
12-01-2017, 04:55 PM
Then when I was at sea for an extended period, my wife took the car to the original selling dealer and had them install the used air conditioner.

I wouldn't be surprised if your Cruiser got sent out to a refrigeration outfit to be filled with compressor oil and charged with Freon as the dealership probably didn't own an air conditioner evacuator/recharging machine. I bet a good portion of the $40 went for that.

Craig

RadioRoy
12-01-2017, 09:04 PM
The air conditioner install comes to $388.66 in today's dollars. A very low price, in my opinion. The dealer treated them well back in 1961.

TWChamp
12-01-2017, 11:00 PM
The air conditioner install comes to $388.66 in today's dollars. A very low price, in my opinion. The dealer treated them well back in 1961.

I was thinking the same thing.
When I was working at the GM car dealership in 1975 one of my jobs was installing aftermarket air. I don't recall the cost, but the shop rate was $10 an hour, and the mechanic got $6 of that $10. A few years later the shop rate had jumped to $70 per hour, but the mechanic only got $12 of that $70.

stude dude
12-02-2017, 03:21 AM
I have also seen a few '66 Daytona Sport Sedans with a split back bench front seat. Seems like an odd choice of delete option for a sporty type of car.

RadioRoy
12-03-2017, 11:49 AM
My 50 Commander convertible came without radio or heater. My 63 GT Hawk came without a radio also.

Xcalibur
12-04-2017, 02:53 PM
No doubt, many are cheap. That said, no one now knows why the rear belts may have been deleted; other possible reasons are not impossible... even for CASOs.