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Fixed-Roof wagon production; Stu Chapman weigh-in?

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  • Fixed-Roof wagon production; Stu Chapman weigh-in?

    Perhaps Stu Chapman or someone else could weigh in on why a fixed-roof wagon was not offered in 1965, as has been reported...or maybe it was. All the other years had the fixed-roof option for a $100 credit, but, allegedly, not 1965.

    Were fixed-roof wagons available from Hamilton in 1963 and 1964? If not, did it take them awhile to get set up to produce fixed-roof wagons in Hamilton for 1966?

    Just curious. (Let's not get bogged down in which wagons were officially Wagonaires and which weren't; that's not the question and is not germane to the discussion. Thanks.) BP
    We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

    G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

  • #2
    Great question, thanks for posting. It will be interesting to see what you come up with.
    Nick

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    • #3
      Originally posted by BobPalma View Post
      Perhaps Stu Chapman or someone else could weigh in on why a fixed-roof wagon was not offered in 1965, as has been reported...or maybe it was. All the other years had the fixed-roof option for a $100 credit, but, allegedly, not 1965.

      Were fixed-roof wagons available from Hamilton in 1963 and 1964? If not, did it take them awhile to get set up to produce fixed-roof wagons in Hamilton for 1966?

      Just curious. (Let's not get bogged down in which wagons were officially Wagonaires and which weren't; that's not the question and is not germane to the discussion. Thanks.) BP
      In another thread I made some comments on this subject. But I must stress this is to be to the best of my recollection. So here goes.

      This applies to Hamilton production. I cannot speak for South Bend production. During 1963 model production we didn't know we had a leakage problem so there was no fixed roof option. In 1964 there were reports of water "wicking" over the rear window and dripping inside. Then came the roof leaking reports. I seem to recollect that a fixed roof fix was offered from 64 through 66.

      In 66 the Wagonaire was offered as a stand-alone model and was called such regardless if the roof was fixed or not.

      Stu Chapman

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      • #4
        I did have a fixed roof 1963 wagon that did not have script wagonaire on the tail gate it sat in my yard for years then got scrapped out as the floor rotted out.
        Candbstudebakers
        Castro Valley,
        California


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        • #5
          Originally posted by candbstudebakers View Post
          I did have a fixed roof 1963 wagon that did not have script wagonaire on the tail gate it sat in my yard for years then got scrapped out as the floor rotted out.
          Was it South Bend production?

          Stu Chapman

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          • #6
            At our Australian Assembly Plant here Melbourne all '63 Wagon Studebakers were sliding roof but warranty work on water leaks determined that the '64 Wagons onwards were all fixed roof.

            \"QUIGLEY DOWN UNDER\"
            MELBOURNE.

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            • #7
              Info I have says that all 1965 wagons were sliders
              sigpic

              Home of the Fried Green Tomato

              "IF YOU WANT THE SMILES YOU NEED TO DO THE MILES "

              1960 Champ , 1966 Daytona , 1965 Daytona Wagonaire

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              • #8
                Originally posted by 2R5 View Post
                Info I have says that all 1965 wagons were sliders
                I believe that's right, Bob; 'just hedging my bet!

                "Never say never" in this hobby! Thanks. BP
                We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

                G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I also had a '63 fixed roof wagon. Built in South Bend as I remember.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by 2R5 View Post
                    Info I have says that all 1965 wagons were sliders
                    Bob, perhaps you could share that information. I contacted Jack Holden who was a production supervisor to see what his recollection was. He seems to remember that when Car Order Department prepared the production ticket that was sent down to the Body Buck, if the roof was to be fixed that request would be shown on that form.

                    Jack's memory isn't for certain but he thinks that 64-66 models could be ordered with fixed roofs. I don't believe we ever publicly announced the fixed roof was an option but I suspect we let the dealers know it was available through a service letter. Again I am only speaking for Hamilton and I have no way of verifying if my memory is correct.

                    Stu Chapman

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                    • #11
                      More information

                      To complicate things even further, Jack Holden seems to recollect that the order forms I noted in the previous post would have indicated if a sliding roof was required. In other words, all Wagonaires would be built with a fixed roof UNLESS the slider was required.

                      Since this seemed to be a puzzling way to handle the production requirements, I dug out my copy of my first book "Requiem to a Pioneer" which includes a copy of the 1966 Standard & Optional Equipment Chart. This document clearly states the sliding roof is an option. So Jack's further recollection is correct. All 1966 Wagonaires would be built with a fixed roof unless the slider option was specified.

                      I then looked at the 1966 Dealer Confidential Prices chart, also in my book, and it clearly shows the sliding roof available as an option at a retail list price of $112.50, retail delivered price of $122.40 (with federal sales tax), basic wholesale price (dealer cost) of $90.00, federal sales tax of $9.90, total wholesale FOB Hamilton of $99.90.

                      Remember, the above information is for the 1966 Wagonaire, however our guess is that this formula also applied to the 1964 and 1965 models which were available in Commander and Daytona models.

                      Stu Chapman

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Stu Chapman View Post
                        Bob, perhaps you could share that information. I contacted Jack Holden who was a production supervisor to see what his recollection was. He seems to remember that when Car Order Department prepared the production ticket that was sent down to the Body Buck, if the roof was to be fixed that request would be shown on that form.

                        Jack's memory isn't for certain but he thinks that 64-66 models could be ordered with fixed roofs. I don't believe we ever publicly announced the fixed roof was an option but I suspect we let the dealers know it was available through a service letter. Again I am only speaking for Hamilton and I have no way of verifying if my memory is correct.

                        Stu Chapman

                        From the Fred Fox article in Turning Wheels , sept 2012
                        “ the fixed roof Wagonaire option was discontinued and only the standard sliding roof was available “ ( page 23 )
                        sigpic

                        Home of the Fried Green Tomato

                        "IF YOU WANT THE SMILES YOU NEED TO DO THE MILES "

                        1960 Champ , 1966 Daytona , 1965 Daytona Wagonaire

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                        • #13
                          A typical Production Order for a 1966 Wagonaire lists it as option code #026:



                          Craig

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by candbstudebakers View Post
                            I did have a fixed roof 1963 wagon that did not have script wagonaire on the tail gate it sat in my yard for years then got scrapped out as the floor rotted out.
                            Originally posted by GTCruiser View Post
                            I also had a '63 fixed roof wagon. Built in South Bend as I remember.
                            I don't think there is any question that a FEW, fixed roof '63-'64 South Bend "Stationwagons" were built.
                            StudeRich
                            Second Generation Stude Driver,
                            Proud '54 Starliner Owner
                            SDC Member Since 1967

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by StudeRich View Post
                              I don't think there is any question that a FEW, fixed roof '63-'64 South Bend "Stationwagons" were built.
                              I posted a photo of a '64 Commander with a fixed roof here: http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...s-camara-wagon

                              I believe it was made in South Bend.

                              Craig

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