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JLau
09-25-2017, 02:41 PM
I feel like a schmuck because I can't find any info regarding date codes on line. I found engine codes, etc., but no date codes. We have a 58 Silver Hawk with the numbers L7 9. I don't know if that means December 9, 1957 or December 7, 1959. There are some other numbers in between the casting number and the date code, and I have no idea what that number is. I have attached a photo (hopefully). Thanks for any input! John

StudeRich
09-25-2017, 03:15 PM
It looks like it is only on the INTAKE MANIFOLD?
Not the Engine, so it is insignificant, since over 50+ Years many "Bolt-ON" Parts may have been changed, especially Intakes.

The L =1957, they started in 1947 with "A".
So I believe the Cast date of this piece of the Engine is July 9, 1957.

There is a more significant date on the Block at the Right Rear, Top. But truthfully, the Serial Number is more important.

I don't understand WHY you would need or want Dates of your Parts? :confused:

JLau
09-25-2017, 03:47 PM
Thank you for the info! Sorry I was not clear. Yes, the numbers are from the intake manifold. The engine is a P62066, which comes back to a 58 silver Hawk with a 289. The heads are 53755, which come back to a 55-61 Studebaker 289 V-8 2bbl with 210 hp. To answer your question, we are selling this car as a parts car. My mechanics are telling me that everything looks all original, and the drivetrain is intact, so I want to make sure that it is (to the best of my knowledge) a numbers matching drivetrain. I guess it may be overkill on my part, but if I was going to buy a complete drivetrain, I would try and get one that is matching numbers and correct.

Corvanti
09-25-2017, 05:02 PM
John, thankfully most Studebaker folks don't care much about matching numbers. in fact, most wouldn't mind if she had a JTS from the Avanti or others with a R2 engine!:)

now 'Vette folks (the 3 Corvettes i had with matching numbers everywhere) freak out if not matching numbers.:rolleyes:

StudeRich
09-25-2017, 07:31 PM
Thank you for the info! Sorry I was not clear. Yes, the numbers are from the intake manifold. The engine is a P62066, which comes back to a 58 silver Hawk with a 289. The heads are 53755, which come back to a 55-61 Studebaker 289 V-8 2bbl with 210 hp. /Cut/

Actually, those Heads are 537555, and could be Stock 170, 185, 195, 205, 210 or 225 HP depending on cubic Inches of the Block Assembly, Carburetor, Year Model and Head Gasket. Or ANY HP on a modified Engine.

As mentioned thank goodness actual build dates really do not matter on Studes. because no one will look or care.

The thing that is very different on a Independent Mfg's. Vehicles is that smaller Co's could not afford to change things every time an Engineer got a brainstorm like GM & Ford!

So a very many Parts all ARE the same over the years and never changed, so are not a "Fit" problem. Even many that did change still FIT!

What Big Three Automaker could say that their ONLY V8 Engine Block Casting was not changed: (1) 1951 to 1954, (2) 1955 to early 1962 and (3) Late 1962 to 1964? That's a total of 14 Years!

And all three Groups still LOOK and weigh very much the SAME!

JLau
09-26-2017, 10:07 AM
Thanks for the feedback, guys! I guess I won't have to check the date on the engine block, then. Crap, I'll probably do it anyway just because I want to know. Interesting info on the lack of changes over the years, Rich. On our other cars, the numbers are a big deal.

jclary
09-26-2017, 11:11 AM
Well...when I encounter a Studebaker owner making a "big deal" about matching numbers...I'm immediately on alert for someone about to OVERSTATE the value of his Studebaker!(This is a general statement, not to accuse JLau:)) In fairness, there are some numbers that ARE critical to certain Studebakers in terms of originality, and value. But, more related to the overall engine/body/factory installed options. (Examples are missing superchargers, 259 ingines in 289 equipped cars, etc.)

Not having the carburetor, supercharger, manifold, valve covers, or oil pan that was on it from the assembly line, is of zero significance to me. I have one vehicle with a 62 year old tire it left the factory with. Its greatest value is the novelty.:cool: Otherwise, it is the most "SPARE" spare tire I've ever seen.:rolleyes:

Seriously, except for the massed produced "belly button" (everybody has one) cars, us Studebaker folks are free to find other useless trivia to clutter our brains.

ddub
09-26-2017, 01:11 PM
I wonder as this generation passes and our Studebakers are taken over by people without our history if the general mania about numbers matching will take over?

64studeavanti
09-26-2017, 01:19 PM
I believe we are comparing apples to oranges. For driver quality cars, "numbers matching" does not matter even for brand x. For collectible, #1 or #2 cars it does. For Studes, the semi collectible Speedsters, Golden Hawks, Avantis etc are worth more if the numbers match. I bet that a Golden Hawk without the matching engine would take quite a hit in value.

Hallabutt
09-26-2017, 02:09 PM
I believe we are comparing apples to oranges. For driver quality cars, "numbers matching" does not matter even for brand x. For collectible, #1 or #2 cars it does. For Studes, the semi collectible Speedsters, Golden Hawks, Avantis etc are worth more if the numbers match. I bet that a Golden Hawk without the matching engine would take quite a hit in value.

I agree with the above, under certain conditions. In any group of the low volume post war cars there are some that stand out. By virtue of their original condition, high end restoration, and the pedigree, that goes along with it, they are just special. These would be the cars that would trade at prices well above those, that many would consider appropriate for a restored version of that model. Most collectors would scratch their head in wonderment at the differences, but to those paying the higher price it is simply a mater of owning the best of the bunch.

Where the difference really becomes significant is in the realm of the pre war "Classics," or specialty near-classics. This also goes for many of the brass era, Edwardian cars as well. I think that for many it would be hard to understand why a 1914 Pierce Arrow 66 horsepower might sell for close to $1M, while a 48 horsepower in the same condition would go for about half of that. To those who pay the price it's a no brainer.