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lumpy
09-19-2017, 10:29 PM
Ok ..I have read all the post's I can find on stude front coils:QQ: . There's lots of talk about moog cc655 . no longer available, and in my opinion will make my lark sit higher than I want. My current set up is a 59 lark with original 6 cyl front springs a small block 327 with aluminum heads, steel scattershield, 30lb flywheel, muncie 4spd . No ps or any other add ons. The front end is still a couple of inches too high:( I prefer a little rake on my cars. Has anyone tried using used rear coils off the late 80s gm front wheel drive mid size cars? IE 1987 buick Le Sabre etc. And no I dont want to cut the coil's because I believe the stored energy of the longer coil's will be an advantage at the drag's .

sals54
09-19-2017, 10:52 PM
Why not just cut a coil off and see how it sits? I've used cut coils on my Studes for several decades. Like, for example, the Coupe you see in my avatar below.

Skybolt
09-20-2017, 07:43 AM
I do believe you are talking about the same springs. Moog cc655 are from a Buick Lesabre. If you want stock springs they might work. Many times this comes up and I can still find the same springs, although under a different brand etc... but if I get time I will pull out the moog charts and find a similar but lighter spring for a lighter engiened Studebaker. I used the cc655 in a six cylinder Lark and it worked fine but not for what you are doing.

https://autoplicity.com/1721618-moog-chassis-parts-coil-springs-variable-rate?gclid=CjwKCAjwo4jOBRBmEiwABWNaMRy8GeamGR_C8A2XGqr-LmDcysyxEe9iqovonOQCpqnRAtFG9TIa8RoCyVIQAvD_BwE

Len

lumpy
09-20-2017, 12:59 PM
Yes except the moog spring is a cargo coil. I'm hoping someone had tried stock gm coils. Thanks Lumpy

wittsend
09-20-2017, 02:16 PM
... Has anyone tried using used rear coils off the late 80s gm front wheel drive mid size cars? IE 1987 buick Le Sabre etc. And no I dont want to cut the coil's because I believe the stored energy of the longer coil's will be an advantage at the drag's .

My answer is, "Not yet." I say that to let you know that I have given it some thought and have gone as far as buying the springs. GM had their own variable rate spring and that is what I bought out of a Pick Your Part car. They are not in all the cars that fit the application and you need to search for them. My '64 Daytona has a 350 Chevy (aluminum intake) and a 700R4 trans that I figure takes about 200 pounds off the front of the car. With your aluminum heads it will be be even lighter. Somewhere (emphasis on the where???) I had all the spring data for the stock springs, the GM springs and the Moog springs. However, at this time I can't find it. My recollection was that the GM springs were .050 thinner but which spring they were thinner than I don't recall (probably the Moog). Just digging into the recesses of my aging mind I have some vague memory of the stock springs were rated at 240-250 the GM spring at 285 and the Moog at 325-ish. I'll include a picture of the springs and if I (ever) find the data I'll post that too.

Anyway, yes, I had similar thoughts. My goal was to find a spring that related more to the front end weight change, had the variable rate and at under $20 out the door was reasonable to experiment with.

OK, found it, http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?70780-Another-MOOG-CC-655-front-spring-question&highlight=spring scroll down to post #7 (and beyond).

lumpy
09-20-2017, 03:08 PM
Thank you wittsend I was hoping you would chime in..and I was hoping you had tried the gm coils, as yours was one of the posts I read:cool:

Skybolt
09-20-2017, 09:05 PM
Thanks wittsend, That saved me looking up the same stuff again.

wittsend
09-21-2017, 02:01 PM
I just need to get the springs in to see. Three years of building my daughter a Tiny House (off and on), two cases of Frozen Shoulder and the lack of logic to changing springs without rebuilding the front end have anchored any progress.

lumpy
09-21-2017, 05:03 PM
Think I'm gonna make a trip to the boneyard this weekend , if I score some springs I'll post before and after pics:!:

wittsend
09-22-2017, 01:23 PM
Just a reminder that there are standard coil springs..., and variable rate coil springs on these GM cars (not sure which you want). I wanted the variable rate spring and I think I looked at 30+ cars before I found them in a Buick. Here is a picture of them in the donor car. It was a while ago but I believe I removed the strut connection in the trunk and then forced the brake drum downward by standing on it (and bouncing, I'm only 160 Lb's.). The spring flying out is an obvious concern and I recall putting something through the spring (a loose chain would do) so it can come out, but still keep it from flying. I took the rubber pads too figuring I could use them to adjust height if needed.

lumpy
09-22-2017, 04:59 PM
Thanks wittsend, think i'll go to yard sunday most likely gonna try standard spring first see how it sits. New ones are available pretty cheap but they allways seem to sit higher than i'd like.

55 56 PREZ 4D
09-23-2017, 02:10 AM
Precision Coil Springs PRE SO8055 come in a box with the Precision label glued over the Moog CC655 label.
Other companies selling equivalent springs:
Husky Springs RV655
Napa 277-5271
Raybestos 591-1053
Sealed Power 832-655
Roadmates 110186
TRW CC655
Monroe U655SV
AC DELCO 45H3053
Perfect Circle 277-5271
Affinia 277-5271

MOOG is not the only coil spring manufacturer in the country. There are many.
Other quality manufacturers are producing the same spring.

StudeRich
09-23-2017, 03:49 PM
How Long ago was that? These relabeled MOOG Springs are disappearing VERY Fast!

lumpy
09-24-2017, 06:00 PM
So I went to pick ur part this morning thinking it would be easy picking....seems everything in the yard is about 2000 and newer:confused: So after lots of searching found a 90 olds 98 b body and yanked the springs . they are .570 wire diameter . I'll try and install in next couple of days and post pics.

wittsend
09-24-2017, 06:29 PM
Yea, mine came out of an 87 Buick. That was..., THIRTY years ago. My experience with the self serve yards is cars typically don't show up until they are 10 years old and are hard to find by 20 years old. Those yards are OK for upgrade parts, but pretty hopeless for finding old car parts. I see you are So. Cal., what yard did you go to?

lumpy
09-24-2017, 07:19 PM
Pick your part Chula Vista they actually have a 50 stude sitting by the sales trailer. I just got a wild hair up my rear and pulled front springs from my lark.... They measured 17" FREE LENGTH:mad: The kid I bought it from said they rebuilt the front end but reused the original front springs...I think I found my nose high problem.

Alan
09-24-2017, 07:32 PM
Yes, Lumpy. They should be 14" + or - 1/2", free standing height. With about .635" to .640" wire thickness.

lumpy
09-24-2017, 07:41 PM
Is that wire thickness 6cyl or v8?

wittsend
09-24-2017, 09:06 PM
Softer springs typically have a longer length and more coils but ultimately a similar ride height as a shorter spring with fewer coils. The difference maker is the diameter of the steel (and the weight of the engine). I'm assuming you have 6 cylinder springs. I believe the size Alan stated is for the V-8 based on my original springs wire size. I'd be interested to know the wire size/coil number of the springs you got. Like me you probably just have to install them and see what you get.

As best I know I have stock V-8 springs. And as mentioned I have about 200 pounds off the front end with the Chevy engine and the the 700R4 trans. Regardless I don't seem to be getting an unusually high front compared to the rear (see image). At least not the nose up "Gasser" look.

lumpy
09-24-2017, 09:46 PM
The springs i bought today were .570 and 8 coils . the stupid springs I pulled out were .580 and 10 coils:eek: the factory v8 coils i bought awhile back are .635 8 coils

lumpy
09-25-2017, 07:21 PM
100 % happy with the way the car sits with the standard gm b body springs:!!: Installed em after work today the car now sits with a little forward rake ,just how I like em. I would not do this on a lark with a stude v8 , but my aluminum headed sbc w 4spd and no accessories sits really nice!I'll post some pics tomorrow at work, Once again thank you for all the input Lumpy:)

jpepper
09-26-2017, 01:18 PM
CC661 springs will work and give you a good ride height for your application. They are about an inch shorter than the CC655. They will ride a little hard because the rate is higher due to the shorter length.

showbizkid
09-26-2017, 01:56 PM
I got mine from Coil Spring Specialties (http://www.coilsprings.com/) on advice of Dave Gahlbeck and they are great. Wound to factory-spec upon order, and less expensive than some that come from Detroit. I recommend them highly.

lumpy
09-27-2017, 01:55 PM
673996740067401 Before and after pictures of my Lark. Springs from left to right 1 GM body, 2 Stude V8 springs, 3 stupid 17 inch spring unknown origin. ;)

wittsend
09-27-2017, 03:37 PM
17" springs = "Gasser" springs. Regardless of the way it occurred it seems you have found (yet another) spring for consideration - at least for Chevy small block swaps. How stiff do they appear?

I'm assuming that I will have similar (end) results with my .605 GM varicoils. My concern was that the .605 vs the stock .640 wire size might not work. But if you are having good results with .570 and all three spring have a similar 14 free length I'm encouraged! My son and wife are swapping out watching "grandma" and he is coming down for the Haas Open House in mid Oct. Maybe I can get him to try the swap with me.

BTW,I threw your springs in a number of calculators (everyone had a different answer - fuzzy math???) but the most consistent ones were in the 225/230 rate. I based that on what you posted and a few visual references (14" free length, 5.5" diameter, .570 wire size).

I also noticed you are less the apron, headlights, grill bumper (maybe hood too?). That can all add up. So, it my drop some more (but I'm guessing you wouldn't mind that).

StudeRich
09-27-2017, 04:23 PM
The Studebaker Part Number is stamped into the Inside or the Outside of the Last Coil on one or both ends.
That 17" could be your stock 6 Cyl. Spring, the weak ones are always the tallest and will collapse the most on installation per Post #19.

lumpy
09-27-2017, 05:38 PM
Yeah 10 4 wittsend i need to install front panel and hood probably another 50lbs or so , i think i forgot to mention my battery is in trunk now also. Front end seem pretty firm but i have not driven it yet. The 17" springs would be awesome for a gasser:lol: And Rich couldn't find any #s on 17" springs I'm thinking not of stude origin , Do you know appx. weight of flathead 6 3pd combo?

Alan
09-27-2017, 08:37 PM
Maybe somebody put a set of Moroso trick springs in it. I had a set in my 53K a number of years back. They were good for the 1/8th mile drags, but nothing else. They were twitchy on the street.

lumpy
09-27-2017, 09:24 PM
Moroso trick springs were my favorite back in the day with my camaro's and even my 57 ... these were not trick springs ..I think I could have put a big block chevy with a turbo 400 and a gear vendors od unit in it and it would still be nose high:lol:

BILT4ME
10-06-2017, 10:48 AM
When I recently replaced the front springs on my 59 Lark with a V8, I installed the CC6655 (or whatever that number is) springs and the new springs were about 4" SHORTER than the original saggy ones taken out. It still managed to raise the front of the car a solid 2".

Now I need to do my rear springs.....

Studelarkrod
11-21-2017, 08:53 PM
Anyone ever spec some custom springs?

StudeRich
11-21-2017, 09:01 PM
New ones are available in any Stock Studebaker Part Number and Spec. as well as shortened stock springs that can all be ordered at Coil Springs Specialties, a Family run made in USA Spring Co.

They KNOW your Studebaker Springs, no guesswork needed! :!:

http://www.coilsprings.com/default.aspx

lumpy
11-21-2017, 09:32 PM
For sure ..Try Detroit Eaton spring .. just make sure you have all your'e weight's front and rear figured out . Or you could end up with something that cost you more than you anticipated and can't return . I'm not cheap I just prefer to be an old school hot rodder . :D

wittsend
11-22-2017, 01:31 PM
Curious? The V-8 Studebaker engine is at least 100 pounds and possibly 150 pounds more than the V-8 McKinnon (Chevy) engine used in 65-66. Did they use a different front spring?

StudeRich
11-22-2017, 05:11 PM
Of course they did.
Studebaker used different rate Front springs whenever the unladen weight changed, 2 Door Sedan, 4 Door Sedan, Hardtop, Convertible, Wagon and even Wagonaire, mostly ALL different. :ohmy: Also 6 to V8.