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kclark
09-02-2017, 07:49 PM
I am looking at buying a 1929 Studebaker on Monday. Having never owned a Stude nor a car as old as this, is there anything specific that I need to look at or for?

Things that I need to be aware of or questions to ask?

Things that might be deal breakers?

sweetolbob
09-02-2017, 08:48 PM
As with any car of that age and scarcity, the less missing parts the easier the rebuild. Metal can be repaired, mechanical's can be rebuilt but missing parts are tough to come by. Bob

kclark
09-02-2017, 08:54 PM
From what I can tell be the pics, Everything is there and it does run. I know that I will be repainting it as I don't like the current color and will replace the interior. The other stuff that I am not sure about until I see it in person is I believe things like the interior window cranks are yellowed and knobs are as well.

Also, What kind of gear shifting is required? I know how model A's start with a start pedal and such is it something similar?

StudeRich
09-02-2017, 09:06 PM
I am pretty sure a 1929 Studebaker would be WAY more Sophisticated than a Model T and have a REAL Borg Warner 3 Speed Transmission. :)

But then what do I know, I don't own one older than 1953.

jclary
09-02-2017, 09:15 PM
I have looked for an older car of the era most of my life. Just never found one priced at what I was willing to pay. As already noted, look for completeness of parts. You can google the particular model you are interested in and find dozens of pictures. When doing this, be careful though, because lots of car pics on the internet are mislabeled and identified incorrect.

If the car uses wood in the body framing, I would want it to be in reasonably solid condition. Critical body connections, like door pillars, need to be solid. If they become hung out into space, (Rusted away where they connect), it is very difficult to return the body to true dimension for doors to fit and close properly. Next, is wheels...while I love the looks of the old "artillery" style wood spoke wheels, I believe I would want metal wheels. Steel Spoke or metal discs, I think I would prefer either over the wooden spoke wheels.

thunderations
09-02-2017, 09:30 PM
Yellow knobs may be correct for that vintage Studebaker. You may want to investigate the Antique Studebaker Club also. There are links to it from this forum homepage.

Hallabutt
09-03-2017, 05:32 AM
What model and body style are you looking at? There's a big range of offerings, as Studebaker tried to provide a car for everyone in the upmarket that prevailed in the 20's. From the full Classic President to competition with other economy cars Studebaker had it all.

kclark
09-03-2017, 11:32 AM
What model and body style are you looking at? There's a big range of offerings, as Studebaker tried to provide a car for everyone in the upmarket that prevailed in the 20's. From the full Classic President to competition with other economy cars Studebaker had it all.

I need to confirm, but I believe it is a dictator. It's actually a hearse but believe it is built on a dictator.

kclark
09-03-2017, 12:24 PM
I am pretty sure a 1929 Studebaker would be WAY more Sophisticated than a Model T and have a REAL Borg Warner 3 Speed Transmission. :)

But then what do I know, I don't own one older than 1953.

What I was meaning is that I wasn't sure if things had progressed to just turn the key to start like today or if there was some sequence to starting the car.

Ron Dame
09-03-2017, 12:30 PM
I wonder, is it synchronized, or do you need to learn to double clutch?


I am pretty sure a 1929 Studebaker would be WAY more Sophisticated than a Model T and have a REAL Borg Warner 3 Speed Transmission. :)

But then what do I know, I don't own one older than 1953.

- - - Updated - - -

I wonder, is it synchronized, or do you need to learn to double clutch?


I am pretty sure a 1929 Studebaker would be WAY more Sophisticated than a Model T and have a REAL Borg Warner 3 Speed Transmission. :)

But then what do I know, I don't own one older than 1953.

kclark
09-03-2017, 12:55 PM
I wonder, is it synchronized, or do you need to learn to double clutch?

I'll have to get back to you on this one. I'm not sure myself. I'm suppose to look at it tomorrow or Tuesday.

But here is a pic that I do have that he took.
66729

64V-K7
09-03-2017, 01:22 PM
I've heard that the steering on these may take you by surprise. After you make a turn, it doesn't supposedly center itself afterwards, without some assist..

Swifster
09-03-2017, 03:50 PM
Hearse body work aside, I'm pretty sure every 1920's car on the road had it's far share of wood reinforcements. See what you can see of the floor, roof and inner side structure.

57pack
09-04-2017, 07:22 AM
Looks like the on the floor starter button is on the floor right side of accelerator pedal.
That's where the starter switch is on a 1941 Chevrolet and on our 1938 Mack. Turn ignition switch on, pull out the choke, hit the starter button. I don't think you have to advance the spark control by 1929.
On our 1947 Champion, you started by depressing the clutch pedal.

kclark
09-04-2017, 12:24 PM
The owner drive me around. Rides good. He said you do have to double clutch. Not sure if that can be changed to synchronized.

As far as what I can see, it would need new tires as the current ones have cracked due to age. And I don't know how to fix it but he said the windshield wiper doesn't work properly. He's not mechanically inclined but thought it had to do with the vacuum.

The other things that would need to be fixed and don't know how hard they are to fix:
Speedometer, odometer, gas gauge.

Any pics needed specifically before I leave town?

rockne10
09-04-2017, 01:04 PM
The vacuum wiper motor should be sent to Ficken. www.wiperman.com (http://www.wiperman.com)
The gauges can also be rebuilt, and the fuel gauge is the King-Seeley type.

66754 66755 66756 66757 66758 66759

A breach in the pressure sending tube seldom happens, but not to be ruled out. More often than not, after seventy or eighty years, the King-Seeley fluid in the dash gauge has simply evaporated, and adding that fluid per instructions should be done before any attempt to repair the rest of the system. As you can see, the sending unit itself is a little more complex than the illustration. There is one pickup tube (on the right in the photo) that sends fuel to the engine. There is one tube that draws equalizing air from above the tank. Then two smaller tubes within the tank that catch the fuel sloshing around as you drive. These correct any pressure settling in the lines if the car sits for any length of time. So the gauge may not read correctly until some driving has been done.

Hallabutt
09-04-2017, 02:44 PM
Double clutching is not as difficult as you might think. These are square cut gears, not beveled, so the challenge is a bit more then you might have in a late 1930 and 1931 Studebaker. It's really just a matter of allowing the gears to match one another's speed so that they are spinning at the same speed. In affect it is just a pause in neutral, on upshift, to allow for the spinning gear to slow down before engaging the higher gear. When shifting down it is a case of a pause in neutral and a quick jab of the gas to speed up the same gear, before engaging a lower gear. It is the same process that synchros help with.

The amount of wood can be an issue with these. Most of the wood is hidden from view. Check the door alignment, and physically lift up on the door(s) to put strain on the hinges where they mount to the wood door jams. Any movement would require more investigation. Ask about the car and it's history, don't let the owner plead ignorance. Act as though you are aware that the whole body is made up of sheet metal body panels over a wood frame. If he can't or won't give the information, it may not be a deal breaker, but it is certainly a negotiating chip.

Mechanically the same things apply as in a more modern car. Look for water in the oil, not good. Oil in the cooling system is somewhat normal and often comes from the water pump. Probably going to find fluid under the car but large amounts are a red flag. Check oil pressure, look for smoke and steam out the exhaust, check for steering shake, it might be just wheel or tire problems but could be steering gear or trunnion, which can be more problematic, and check for uniform braking operation (these have mechanical brakes and use rods to adjust).

Starting is not as simple as just turning the key and magically the engine starts. First there is a manual chock, on the dash, which must be pulled out before you do anything else (unfortunately each car is different and will respond differently to being chocked). Some cars need a full chock and some not so much, but most all will need some chocking. Next step is to fully retard the timing. Like most cars of the era there are levers next to the horn button in the center of the steering wheel, some have three some two, which I believe may be the case on your car. The three are light switch, manual spark advance and the hand throttle. Disregard the light switch for starting, but make sure that the lights work. Light switch operation is very important because the switch at the base of the column goes bad regularly and they are hard to find. Determine which is the advance and run it all the way down, into full retard. Check for the operation of the had throttle, you will need to use it in startup. Not sure if this car will have a steering lock, but if it does you will find the keyhole on the side of the column with a small lever close by. Turning the key will allow you to unlock the steering and flip that lever to the start position. Now push on the floor starter, which is to the right of the gas peddle. The engine will began to crank. When you hear the first shudder of the engine it may not start immediately, but if it does start you will need to be quick with the hand throttle to slightly rev the engine, until it settles into a smooth idle. Advance the timing and adjust the chock to best facilitate smooth operation. If it doesn't start immediately you might need to slightly advance the timing and push in the chock a bit. Starting is a process and failure in the sequence and you will have to start over again. Each car is different and responds differently to chocking and spark advance. Good luck!

rockne10
09-04-2017, 03:24 PM
Double clutching is not as difficult as you might think. Over the years I've found it even easier to sense the engine rpm and wheel speed. Often the gears can be shifted even with no clutching at all.

kclark
09-04-2017, 04:46 PM
Hallabutt. Thank you a bunch. That's a lot of info and everything you said is pretty much exactly as it was started. I though have 3 levers: lights, advance & close is what the steering wheel plate shows. Although the man I DID buy it from is not mechanically inclined and he said he has never had to use those. He had owned it for 20+ years.

There is a lever under the dash below the choke. He never knew it was there and doesn't know what it does. He did have a fuel pump installed.

kclark
09-04-2017, 06:13 PM
Any idea what the pedal to the far right is for?

It looks like the high beam headlight floor switch but I know it's not that.
66772

kclark
09-05-2017, 10:22 AM
Is this a good book to get on Ebay for "fixing" thing or is there a better reference guide? As I await the arrival of the 1929 Dictator Hearse, I'm trying to get some ducks in a row so I can get ready to work on it.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Studebaker-Standard-6-and-Dictator-Shop-Manual-1925-1926-1927-1928-1929-ER-EU-GE-/401363301916?fits=Year%3A1929%7CMake%3AStudebaker&hash=item5d731df61c:g:B5kAAMXQPGJSMIy6&vxp=mtr

jts359
09-05-2017, 02:11 PM
There were two model Dictators in 29/30 One was a GL six cyl. I had one of these 30 some odd years ago , It was a 2dr club sedan , Nice car, a lot of wood in the body small parts are hard to find so take care of what you have, The carb was a UX-2 Pot metal that would disintegrate , I coated mine with either epoxy or fiberglass it seemed to help , It had mechanical brakes with 3 shoes on each wheel , They worked pretty good but I don't think I ever went over 60mph in it , The other model was an 8 cyl. and I think it was a GE, Ed

kclark
09-05-2017, 04:51 PM
There were two model Dictators in 29/30 One was a GL six cyl. I had one of these 30 some odd years ago , It was a 2dr club sedan , Nice car, a lot of wood in the body small parts are hard to find so take care of what you have, The carb was a UX-2 Pot metal that would disintegrate , I coated mine with either epoxy or fiberglass it seemed to help , It had mechanical brakes with 3 shoes on each wheel , They worked pretty good but I don't think I ever went over 60mph in it , The other model was an 8 cyl. and I think it was a GE, Ed

The one I bought is a straight 6

rockne10
09-05-2017, 06:33 PM
I believe the '29 Dictator was the GE Model and the '30 Dictator was the GL. GE Model had 241.6 cid and the GL had 221.4. I could be wrong; have been often before.
The '29 Commander 6 was the GJ Model with 248.3 cid and the '29 Commander 8 was FD Model with 250.4.

kclark
09-05-2017, 07:18 PM
It is a '29 Dictator with a 6.

Now the VIN stamps on them don't line up with anything that I've found. The stamp on the frame under behind the driver side fender reads FZ2231 (Picture attached). I haven't seen the one under the dash but I'll look again when the car arrives over the weekend. But the number on the engine on the passenger side reads 165201-2.

I am wondering if either there is another serial stamped on the frame or the number was changed at the coach builder company.

66778 66779 66780 66781

dictator27
09-06-2017, 09:53 AM
Any idea what the pedal to the far right is for?

It looks like the high beam headlight floor switch but I know it's not that.
66772
The far right button is the starter button.

Starting my 27 Dictator is as follows, the 29 would be the same:

left foot on clutch
left hand for choke
right hand for spark (retarded - usually up) and throttle (about 1/4 open) both are on the steering wheel on 29 Dictators
right foot for starter button and accelerator

The transmission is unsynchronized, so double clutching is required, but it is not difficult. With a little practice crunchless gear changes are easy, although downshifting may take a little more practice.

Automatic spark advance and synchronized transmissions were still three or four years away.

The brakes are mechanical. Hydraulic brakes first used on Studebakers in 1935.

dictator27
09-06-2017, 10:27 AM
It is a '29 Dictator with a 6.



Now the VIN stamps on them don't line up with anything that I've found. The stamp on the frame under behind the driver side fender reads FZ2231 (Picture attached). I haven't seen the one under the dash but I'll look again when the car arrives over the weekend. But the number on the engine on the passenger side reads 165201-2.

I am wondering if either there is another serial stamped on the frame or the number was changed at the coach builder company.

66778 66779 66780 66781

The FZ2231 is a casting number, not a serial number. The serial number is stamped on a plate attached to the frame immediately behind the left front wheel. It is not cast.
Similarly, 165201-2 is the part number for the block, not the engine number which is stamped on the block on a flat surface possibly above the water jacket plate on the passengers side.

The body number is usually on a small plate attached to the firewall on the passengers side under the hood. It will have the model (GE, etc., followed by a letter/number combination indicating trim level - this may be different for a body from an outside supplier. Under that will be a number that is an assembly line number indicating how many Dictators had been made to that point.

kclark
09-06-2017, 12:57 PM
Thank you dictator27,

Attached might be a better visual of what I was asking about the pedals.


66786

dictator27
09-06-2017, 04:56 PM
The ??? one is the starter button. The one labelled starter is only a foot rest.

Terry

kclark
09-06-2017, 05:51 PM
The ??? one is the starter button. The one labelled starter is only a foot rest.

Terry

Thank you Terry. I feel stupid but I don't know if I don't ask

dictator27
09-06-2017, 07:04 PM
There is no such thing as a stupid question.

rockne10
09-06-2017, 07:22 PM
There is no such thing as a stupid question."National Ask a Stupid Question Day" is coming up this September 29, just happening to be my birthday! And you are correct. The only stupid questions are those that do not get asked. ;)

https://www.daysoftheyear.com/days/ask-a-stupid-question-day/

kclark
09-06-2017, 08:42 PM
The ??? one is the starter button. The one labelled starter is only a foot rest.

Terry

Is the starter suppose to have a "button" pad or a rubber cover over it?

Mrs K Corbin
09-07-2017, 06:44 AM
When you gonna post pictures of the car?

dictator27
09-07-2017, 08:43 AM
Is the starter suppose to have a "button" pad or a rubber cover over it?

No. There is no cover on it.

kclark
09-07-2017, 11:35 AM
When you gonna post pictures of the car?

Here you go...Barring Mrs. Irma, it is suppose to be here on Sunday or Monday.

66803 66804 66805 66807 66808 66810 66811
66812

jts359
09-07-2017, 11:57 AM
That car looks really nice , Good luck with it , Ed

dictator27
09-07-2017, 05:11 PM
Looking good!

Mrs K Corbin
09-08-2017, 06:23 AM
good looking car.

Studebaker Wheel
09-08-2017, 12:45 PM
The vehicle is a 1929 model GK (serial no. range 3751550 t0 3753009) . This series was built between January and October 1929 with 1460 units assembled. It was called the "Arlington" and was the economy grade unit offered by Studebaker being on the Six cylinder frame. It was essentially a Dictator model GL built on a extended 146" chassis. Of course the body was by the Superior Body Company of Lima, Ohio (established 1923). The car was restored back in the 70s by Ed Richter of Roscommon, Michigan. I photographed it at the SDC Intl meet in Indianapolis in 1976 (below). Ed is till around and actively restoring Studebakers. I am sure would be able to relate the details re his original purchase from the first owner and his restoration. Send me pm and I will provide his contact info.

66826

kclark
09-12-2017, 10:21 PM
With it being a GL, is it considered a Dictator or a Commander?