PDA

View Full Version : Body: Expertise on replacing Classic Enterprise pillar base support



1953champcoupe
08-19-2017, 09:13 AM
I am in the process of replacing the floor and "pillar base support", I thought that after I had cut away the "offending" sheet metal the support would just insert into the base of the pillar using the hinge screw to locate it. Well.......do you have to cut even more of it away to get it to slide into position? This is my first at doing this level of body work so I could use any and all good suggestions on this piece as well as the floor.

When I bought it I foolishly thought I could just patch in a little sheet metal here and there. I guess my rose colored glasses needed a sharper lens:)

Thanks in advance

Marv

64V-K7
08-19-2017, 03:57 PM
The pillar support from Classic has a hole where the bottom bolt on the lower door hinge threads into... Yes. That should locate the pillar and register it above the body brace.
Then the channel piece on the bottom of the pillar support matches the profile and level of the door sill...

If you have to carve out any sheet metal to install the pillar support, then do it from the kick panel area. The sheet metal is easily replaced there and if you're doing floor pieces as well, then this area will get torn up from fitting the floors (my experience)

clarkwd
08-19-2017, 06:53 PM
Marv
There are quite a few floorboard repair pictures on my web site that may be helpful.
Bill

1953champcoupe
08-20-2017, 09:55 PM
Thanks to both 64V-K7 and clarkwd for the info and pictures. I went to a car show yesterday with a car I've had since the 70's so nothing was done and today I was fixing rust through in the cowl to frame support, no idea how rust gets in the places it does but before I can fit the floor I needed to fix both the inside and outside of the cowl. Glad I have adequate tools (although a good finger brake would be helpful) and a good supply of decent metal to fix the odd ball places.66355

After looking at your pictures (clarkwd) you have fixed worse, that gives me some hope.

1953champcoupe
08-21-2017, 09:39 AM
It appears that the sequence to fixing the floor is to:

1. install the pillar support repair piece
2. fit and locate the floor
3. slide the body support pieces in under the floor

are my assumptions correct? It appears (as previously noted), it looks like I will have to cut a little of the inner kick panel to insert the Classic Enterprise repair piece. Help me out guys, I grew up on the farm and I am truly plowing new ground on this project. Note, I have X braced the body at both front pillar post and the rear pillar post to keep everything in place, that does make it fun to work around:(

clarkwd
08-21-2017, 11:15 AM
I would put the pillar support piece in place and locate it with the hinge screw, then I would locate the front body bracket using the top and bottom screws at the frame and the bat wing screw. Make sure there is room for the isolators at all the screw locations, especially at the end of the bat wing. The end of the bracket should fit into the pillar support. It would be best to just connect the end of the bracket to the pillar support with some self tapping sheet metal screws, but you could tack it if you are certain the A post is in the right place. You'll have to goof with the floors to get them where you want and to make the bracket and the floor pan touch. I like to screw everything together with some self tappers. After you are happy with it, take a day off and come back to it and check it. Put some spot weld holes in the pan where it is on top of the body bracket and if you are going to have any lap joints, mark out where you want some holes for spot welding. Take it apart and punch the holes and trim the two pieces to fit neatly and screw it back together. Take a break and make sure the A post is right and weld away. Be patient. The A post has to be right inside out, front to back and up and down. Bill

1953champcoupe
08-21-2017, 12:58 PM
Bill, thanks for your reply, I like your idea of using temporary fasteners before actually welding it together (I did that while replacing the trunk corners).

You refer to the bat wing (in my reading of your notes) as a separate piece from the front body/pillar support. I seen the term multiple times but I think it must be something used on new than 53 C/K cars? This sounds like something I should/could fabricate to stiffen up the some what "fragile" Champion frame in anticipation of replacing the flat head six with a V-8. Have you done any additional beefing of the frame? I am open to any ideas to firm up the frame. I am adding inner rockers just to add a little stiffness since the 53 C model didn't have them.

I noted a shifter coming out of the tunnel on the yellow car (if I remember correctly), does that go to a five speed of some sort?

Thanks for your expertise!

clarkwd
08-21-2017, 02:04 PM
OK there 53champcoupe. I missed that you had a 53. Sorry I did not take a picture, but just forward of the heater box hole on both sides, your 53 has a short body bracket riveted to the frame. In 54 they had a frame member bolted to the frame that went across the car and ended under each A post. I would not go to the work you are doing without finding one of these brackets and bolting it in. You need a batwing for a CK. Someone out there has one. The picture shows this frame member you do not have under the transmission. Don't tell anyone, but the transmission in the yellow car is a Mustang 5 Speed, a T5. Most fun old car I have driven. And one more thing 53champcoupe, if you are going to put a V8 in your rig, someone should comment on if the 6 cyl springs you have are suitable.
Bill
http://www.rustyrestorations.org/images/53%20Studebaker/0036%2020150529_212738.jpg

52 Ragtop
08-21-2017, 09:05 PM
Before welding, be sure to use the weld through primer. It replaces the zinc burned out by welding. Also, once done, be sure to prime and seam seal BOTH sides of the seams. a 2 part seam seal works best. Then prime and paint. Primer is NOT waterproof!

Jim

1953champcoupe
08-22-2017, 08:58 AM
great answers beget more questions:) I see why it is called a batwing, evidently the ends of the batwing are directly under the pillar body support and bolt right there?

I haven't looked for a repro batwing yet, depending on price it might be better fabricate one?

I assume that the rear pillar body support goes in before the floor also?

Last question (for now) do you have a picture of the master cylinder as well as the part number. I assume you have the Turner Disk Brake kid with rear drums?

clarkwd
08-22-2017, 06:40 PM
I've never replaced a coupe body support under the B post, but you probably want to put it in before the floors.

You could put the inner rockers in, but I would not weld the outer rockers in until you were done. If you weld them in, you might have a problem lining them up with the doors, the rear quarter and the front fenders. Wait till last, then put them on. And somewhere along the line, make sure the new floor under the kick plate leaves room for the kick plate to not hit the bottom of the door. (very painful lesson learned on a Met)

I have never seen a repoped bat wing, but I've seen quite a few serviceable originals at flea markets.

I'm not sure what the master cylinder is, but I am sure that if I call Turner and buy a complete kit, its going to work. And get the flexible hoses too, they make life a lot easier. And its way easier to put the assembly in after the bat wing and body bracket is installed, but before the floors are installed.
Bill

1953champcoupe
08-22-2017, 09:28 PM
I would put the pillar support piece in place and locate it with the hinge screw, then I would locate the front body bracket using the top and bottom screws at the frame and the bat wing screw. Make sure there is room for the isolators at all the screw locations, especially at the end of the bat wing. The end of the bracket should fit into the pillar support. It would be best to just connect the end of the bracket to the pillar support with some self tapping sheet metal screws, but you could tack it if you are certain the A post is in the right place. You'll have to goof with the floors to get them where you want and to make the bracket and the floor pan touch. I like to screw everything together with some self tappers. After you are happy with it, take a day off and come back to it and check it. Put some spot weld holes in the pan where it is on top of the body bracket and if you are going to have any lap joints, mark out where you want some holes for spot welding. Take it apart and punch the holes and trim the two pieces to fit neatly and screw it back together. Take a break and make sure the A post is right and weld away. Be patient. The A post has to be right inside out, front to back and up and down. Bill

I may not be reading/comprehending correctly but it seems like you would affix the body supports to the A Pillar (B Pillar also?) then fit the floor around the two pillars?

I originally surmised that I'd have to position the floor pan between the A pillar repair piece and the body mount (and assumed the same for the B Pillar) which wasn't going well but I kept finding other areas in the firewall that needed repair. I wasn't able to tell in the pictures exactly what had been done.

Thanks for all of the assistance, Marv

jimmijim8
08-23-2017, 06:10 AM
Marv
There are quite a few floorboard repair pictures on my web site that may be helpful.
Bill

Fantastic reconstruction done by you. I am overwhelmed by your skill. jimmijim