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View Full Version : 63 Lark wiper switch wire colors, locations needed



DilloCrafter
07-10-2006, 01:03 AM
I bought a 12v wiper motor to upgrade my '55 truck from 6v, and the motor happens to have come from a '63 Lark. Thing is, it's a 4-wire motor, and the ONLY switch that works is the white rocker switch from a '63 Lark (or a NLA later truck switch, or possibly a Hawk switch, if it used that 4-wire motor). I have ordered one from Chuck Collins, and before it gets here, I was wondering if any '63 Lark owners can tell me which color wires go to each of the four terminals. I'm assuming they are the same colors as the ones coming from the motor to the plug, and those same colors carry straight through to the switch. If that's not right, I'm sure you can set me straight.

p.s. I sent this email request to our resident 16 yr old Studebaker nut, as he has a '63 Lark, but he's going to be unavailable for a few days. So, let's see what the older guys can come up with in the meantime.


http://simps.us/studebaker/misc/images/Current_Avacar.gif[/img=left] - DilloCrafter


1955 1/2 Ton Pickup
[i]The Red-Headed Amazon

Roscomacaw
07-10-2006, 08:50 PM
Actually Dillo, I was just thru this issue for someone else that I sold a late 12 volt motor to. Dang-it, I can't remember now, but I'm sure you can happily work this motor with your truck's original wiper switch. I'll have to go out and have a look-see again.[8D]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

DilloCrafter
07-11-2006, 01:36 AM
Yes, Biggsy, that may have been my question you answered several months ago, when I was trying to get this '63 Lark 4-wire motor to work with my old '55 truck 3-wire switch, then later with a '59 Lark 3-wire switch. I also got lengthy help from gordr, who was at his job site, and was working from memory at the time.

However, I don't think it is possible to run this 4-wire motor from one of the afore-mentioned 3-wire switches, not even with the crafty use of a 12v relay, as gordr diagrammed for me. Here's why I believe this:

The 12v, 3-wire wiper switch from a '59 Lark (and for that matter, the 6v, 3-wire wiper switch from the '55 truck) has these continuity combinations -
Off - F & A
Low - F, A & P
High - A & P

Every way I tried it, these switches would not work with the 4-wire motor. So, I did a web search for "wiper motor wiring" and came up with a well done set of diagrams and explanations for the 12v 4-wire motor in a Triumph TR6! As it turns out, the diagram looked essentially like the guts of the '63 Lark wiper motor, so I printed it and studied it carefully. See this extremely helpful set of diagrams here:http://www.vtr.org/maintain/wiper-problem.shtml Yep, that would work, I was convinced, so I looked for a switch that had the same combinations of continuity as in the Triumph diagrams. No luck finding such a switch anywhere.

The next thing to do, which I should have done a long time ago, was to order a NOS wiper switch for a '63 Lark. When it arrived today, I looked for the same continuity combinations as the Triumph diagram, and found them!

To record this for posterity, I borrowed the look of the Triumph diagram, and modified it for this 1963 Lark motor and switch, as seen below:

Click image for a larger, printable view
http://simps.us/studebaker/misc/images/1963LarkWiperMotorAndSwitch-diagram-small.gif (http://simps.us/studebaker/misc/1963LarkWiperMotorAndSwitch-diagram.asp)

If anyone with a '63 Lark can verify the colors to the terminals on the switch as I have shown here, please chime in.

Thanks, Biggsy and gordr, for the help. If you can figure out how to make this motor work with one of the older 3-wire switches, I'd like to know. But I'm betting it can't be done. If I'm right, I'll feel better about having had to pay for a NOS Lark rocker switch!


http://simps.us/studebaker/misc/images/Current_Avacar.gif[/img=left] - DilloCrafter

1955 1/2 Ton Pickup
[i]The Red-Headed Amazon
Deep in the heart of Texas

N8N
07-11-2006, 05:49 AM
you could also use a switch from a late T-cab that might look more correct in your truck... I'm still not sure why you don't just get a 3-wire wiper motor, would be a direct bolt in and solve all your problems.

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
62 Daytona hardtop
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

klifton1
07-11-2006, 06:12 AM
What year cars carried the 3 wire, 12 volt motor ?
Klif

55 Speedster
42 Champ Coupe

DilloCrafter
07-11-2006, 10:46 AM
Nate, if I could have gotten a 3-wire, 12v motor back when I wanted one, I would have done that (in retrospect, but I didn't know there were differences back when I was looking for a 12v motor). Anyway, the point is moot now, as I've spent hours of time and frustration, approx. $90 and now have both a motor and a switch. Plus, I know a heck of a lot more now than I did before.

If you had been through all I have done, to the point that you got all this to work and had documented it for future reference, why must you taunt me by saying, "I'm still not sure why you don't just get a 3-wire wiper motor". BECAUSE IT'S ALL DONE NOW! Sheesh, back seat drivers.

http://rocketdillo.com/studebaker/misc/images/Current_Avacar.gif[/img=left] - DilloCrafter

1955 1/2 Ton Pickup
[i]The Red-Headed Amazon
Deep in the heart of Texas

Roscomacaw
07-11-2006, 12:40 PM
So it was you that prompted me to do that, eh? I was thinking it was dclewellen that asked me this question. in any event, looking at your diagram, it appears that if you took the black wire off that switch and connected it to the same terminal as the red wire, that would do it.
The "park cam switch would get power all the time from the CB. When you flip the switch to the "off" position, the switch disconnects the red wire (high speed)BUT the power still goes to the high speed brush via the red wire/black wire combo. That is, until the park cam interrupts that power and the wipers stop (park);)

This is essentially what the original 3-wire setup does/did except that the internal wiring of the motor was different. I've wondered WHY they bothered to add a 4th wire to establish a park circuit in later motors and it might just come down to a different supplier choosing to do it differently.

Geez, it was last summer that I figured this out. In fact, I took an early and late motor and an early and late switch and proved what I thought would work. ..... I think. I remember using the 58 wagon's 3-wire motor as a test vehicle.

Prove it yourself. I don't think you can hurt anything. Try tying the red and black wire from the motor together and see if it doesn't park when you go to off.[^]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

DilloCrafter
07-11-2006, 12:59 PM
Okay, Bob, I tried what you suggested. The result was interesting. There was a very noticeable "stutter", or hesitation in the motor's rotation every time it passed by the "window" in that brass disc that lies atop the drive gear. (Since the black and green wires go to the same piece of brass that lies on top of that gear, they are electrically the same point, EXCEPT for a brief moment in each rotation when a gap in the brass passes under the green contact point.)

For some reason, I don't get that stutter when it is wired as in my diagram, although I do hear a little something that tells me it is passing by that window.

Maybe I should obtain a "1549566 Wiper Switch, All 1960-62 Larks; All 1960-1962 Champ trucks" as Nate suggested, if I want to go for a more original look in the cab (as opposed to a white rocker switch).

But, then I'll have to sell my '63 Lark wiper switch and my '59 Lark wiper switch. Oh, decisions. Heck, maybe I'll sell the '59 switch, buy the one for Champ trucks, and keep the '63 Lark switch as a backup for the 1963 Lark I hope to find any buy someday!

http://rocketdillo.com/studebaker/misc/images/Current_Avacar.gif[/img=left] - DilloCrafter

1955 1/2 Ton Pickup
[i]The Red-Headed Amazon
Deep in the heart of Texas

Roscomacaw
07-11-2006, 01:29 PM
"There was a very noticeable "stutter", or hesitation in the motor's rotation every time it passed by the "window" in that brass disc that lies atop the drive gear."

In the OFF position or in HIGH position?[:I]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

DilloCrafter
07-11-2006, 06:34 PM
The motor stuttered, or actually seemed to stop and restart, in both the low and high positions. I'm sure it isn't meant to work that way. When wired according to my diagram (the wiring of which I borrowed from that Triumph website) you could faintly hear a little bump each time it passed that window on the brass disc, but the motor speed stayed constant. I suppose that's because continuity flows through that "B" terminal only when the switch is powered down to the "off" position.

http://rocketdillo.com/studebaker/misc/images/Current_Avacar.gif[/img=left] - DilloCrafter

1955 1/2 Ton Pickup
[i]The Red-Headed Amazon
Deep in the heart of Texas

DilloCrafter
07-11-2006, 06:39 PM
Nate said, "you could also use a switch from a late T-cab that might look more correct in your truck..."

My Reply: I wish I had figured that out before, but I didn't know the motor was a 4-wire in those 1960 and later T-cab trucks. I hope I can find a deal on one of those T-cab wiper switches.

Klif asked, "What year cars carried the 3 wire, 12 volt motor ?
"

My Reply: Klif, from what I can tell, 1956-59 cars and trucks used a 12v, 3-wire motor. At least that's what the wiring diagrams at Chuck Collins' http://www.studebakerparts.com seem to indicate. Chuck also said the '63 Hawk used a 3-wire motor.


http://rocketdillo.com/studebaker/misc/images/Current_Avacar.gif[/img=left] - DilloCrafter

1955 1/2 Ton Pickup
[i]The Red-Headed Amazon
Deep in the heart of Texas

Roscomacaw
07-11-2006, 08:55 PM
OK, now I gotta ask if the motor stopping and starting (seemingly) was without it driving any blades. I ask because without the drag of the blades, the motor CAN overrun the stop cam and continue to cycle - overrunning it repeatedly.:D

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

DilloCrafter
07-11-2006, 09:55 PM
No blades loading it down. This was all done on the bench with a 12v power supply.

When I tested it as in my diagram, it ran fine at both low and high speeds, and it "parked" appropriately after the switch was moved to the "off" position.

With the red and black wires joined, as you suggested I try as an experiment, it ran at low and high speeds, but you could hear the motor give up then start up again when running at those speeds, every time it crossed that stop window on the brass disc. And when I moved the switch to the "off" position, no matter which speed it was running at prior to that, the motor would run at least two revolutions at high speed, bucking when crossing the window, and then stopping, or sometimes, not ever stopping until I removed power.

And that's what happened.

http://rocketdillo.com/studebaker/misc/images/Current_Avacar.gif[/img=left] - DilloCrafter

1955 1/2 Ton Pickup
[i]The Red-Headed Amazon
Deep in the heart of Texas

N8N
07-11-2006, 10:53 PM
I don't think *all* T-cabs used a 4-wire wiper motor, only the later ones, maybe 64 only? or 63-64? check the wiring diagrams at studebakerparts.com maybe that will shed some light on the subject. I just know that this came up before as I had to rewire a T-cab and the NOS wiring harness that was available had a 4-wire wiper motor plug in it, it was no big deal though as the wiper motor in the truck was toast anyway. I am trying to remember what I used for a wiper switch, I think maybe one from a GT Hawk? That would be a toggle switch not a pull knob, it didn't look quite right but it got the job done. In any case I was just trying to use what I had on hand and worked as I was most definitely not restoring the truck. I still think it might be easier to find a 3-wire motor, but it's up to you what you want to do.

good luck,

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
62 Daytona hardtop
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

DilloCrafter
07-12-2006, 06:32 PM
I called SASCO today. They said the 63-64 T-cabs used a pull-on switch for the 4-wire wiper motor, but they are out of stock. He said enough others have done what I'm doing (put a later, 4-wire, 12v motor in a formerly 6v truck) that they sold all those wiper switches. [V]

http://rocketdillo.com/studebaker/misc/images/Current_Avacar.gif[/img=left] - DilloCrafter

1955 1/2 Ton Pickup
[i]The Red-Headed Amazon
Deep in the heart of Texas

DilloCrafter
07-18-2006, 08:53 PM
A follow up -

Nate and Matthew helped convince me how out-of-place a white Lark rocker switch would look inside a '55 truck cab. Until I can obtain a later T-cab, 2 speed pull-on switch with a round knob, I have decided to fill that round hole in my instrument panel with a black plastic toggle switch from the FLAPS. It has only 3 terminals, so I will go without high speed for now, and rig it for the low speed and the motor's built-in wiper park switch. And since it is the common ON-OFF-ON variety, I can leave it in the down or center position when off, flip up to get the low (and only) speed. When I want to park the wipers, I have to switch it all the way down past the middle position. It's kind of cool, actually. I can just flip it to the middle position (no current flowing anywhere in the terminals) and the wiper blades will stop. Then I can flip down, and they park themselves. I consider this a cool "extra feature".

http://rocketdillo.com/studebaker/misc/images/temporaryWiperSwitch.jpg

http://rocketdillo.com/studebaker/misc/images/Current_Avacar.gif[/img=left] - DilloCrafter

1955 1/2 Ton Pickup
[i]The Red-Headed Amazon
Deep in the heart of Texas

mbstude
07-18-2006, 09:18 PM
Glad you got it figured out for now! SWEET TRUCK! I can't wait to see it in person. BTW, I love the 50's style gas pump on the guage. Great attention to detail.
Love it...

Matthew Burnette, the 16 year old Stude nut. Hazlehurst, Georgia
63 Daytona HT (project, OHV 6 engine, soon to have dual exhaust)
51 2R16 dump truck (yes, I won the raffle)
52 Commander Starliner (basket case)(will trade for another Stude <g>)
MANY more Studes in the family and a few parts cars.
Click my name and check out "Links".

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/rainyday.jpg