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Chris Pile
01-15-2008, 06:31 PM
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080111/FREE/338670443/1023/latestnews

Chris Pile
StudeFolk Manager
http://tiny.cc/RYqAK

jnewkirk77
01-15-2008, 08:17 PM
Chris, don't know if you saw it or not, but in the past couple days, we've been discussing a Packard Hawk on eBay with a good many incorrect "enhancements" in its restoration. I was glad to see the article, at least until I read it. There's a lot of stuff there that's just plain WRONG!

"The first Hawk, nicknamed Hurley's Hawk, was originally designed to be the company president's private sports car. Hurley had been the successful president of the Curtiss-Wright Corp. Whether as a tax write-off, a whim or a favor to his friend Dwight Eisenhower, who didn't want a big-name corporate collapse, Hurley had assumed control of Packard in 1953. He continued Packard production in Detroit for three years while acquiring the flagging Studebaker Corp. in South Bend, Indiana. In 1957, Packard moved to Studebaker's facility."

Everything in that paragraph is wrong.

And then there's this:

"To restore Packard's reputation for quality, Hurley decided to use his custom-built two-door hardtop as a prototype of the '58 Hawk. Touted as the 'Family Sports Car,' the Hawk actually began production in January 1957."

Hurley proved in short order that he didn't give a rat's rear end about Packard ... or Studebaker. All he wanted was the tax credits Studebaker had built up, and that info has been out there since 1956. Hurley's personal car might've been built in January '57, but AFAIK, the Hawk didn't go into production until the rest of the '58s started, which would've been late summer '57 at the earliest.

Still not enough? How 'bout this:

"Hawk front hoods were among the first automotive uses of fiberglass."

Evidently this fellow conveniently forgot that the ENTIRE bodies of both the Corvette and Kaiser-Darrin were completely made of fiberglass ... four and three years before the Hawk, respectively. The little Woodill Wildfire -- again, a full fiberglass body -- was in there around that time period too, if not earlier. And, of course, Studebaker used fiberglass tailfins on the '56 Golden Hawk.

I wish I could find out where this guy got his (mis)information!!!

Jacob Newkirk - Owensboro, KY

Currently driving an '87 Ford F-150, but I dream of having a Hawk one day. Don't we all?

jnewkirk77
01-15-2008, 08:17 PM
Chris, don't know if you saw it or not, but in the past couple days, we've been discussing a Packard Hawk on eBay with a good many incorrect "enhancements" in its restoration. I was glad to see the article, at least until I read it. There's a lot of stuff there that's just plain WRONG!

"The first Hawk, nicknamed Hurley's Hawk, was originally designed to be the company president's private sports car. Hurley had been the successful president of the Curtiss-Wright Corp. Whether as a tax write-off, a whim or a favor to his friend Dwight Eisenhower, who didn't want a big-name corporate collapse, Hurley had assumed control of Packard in 1953. He continued Packard production in Detroit for three years while acquiring the flagging Studebaker Corp. in South Bend, Indiana. In 1957, Packard moved to Studebaker's facility."

Everything in that paragraph is wrong.

And then there's this:

"To restore Packard's reputation for quality, Hurley decided to use his custom-built two-door hardtop as a prototype of the '58 Hawk. Touted as the 'Family Sports Car,' the Hawk actually began production in January 1957."

Hurley proved in short order that he didn't give a rat's rear end about Packard ... or Studebaker. All he wanted was the tax credits Studebaker had built up, and that info has been out there since 1956. Hurley's personal car might've been built in January '57, but AFAIK, the Hawk didn't go into production until the rest of the '58s started, which would've been late summer '57 at the earliest.

Still not enough? How 'bout this:

"Hawk front hoods were among the first automotive uses of fiberglass."

Evidently this fellow conveniently forgot that the ENTIRE bodies of both the Corvette and Kaiser-Darrin were completely made of fiberglass ... four and three years before the Hawk, respectively. The little Woodill Wildfire -- again, a full fiberglass body -- was in there around that time period too, if not earlier. And, of course, Studebaker used fiberglass tailfins on the '56 Golden Hawk.

I wish I could find out where this guy got his (mis)information!!!

Jacob Newkirk - Owensboro, KY

Currently driving an '87 Ford F-150, but I dream of having a Hawk one day. Don't we all?

JDP
01-15-2008, 08:28 PM
So the story of Hurley asking to have a "one off" styled for him is a urban legend ? I'd read that was the story and the designer was shocked that it was put into production.

JDP/Maryland
63 R2 SuperHawk (Caesar)
spent to date $54664,75
64 R2 GT (Sid)
spent to date $62,839.60
63 Lark 2 door
51 Commander
39 Coupe express
39 Coupe express (rod)

JDP
01-15-2008, 08:28 PM
So the story of Hurley asking to have a "one off" styled for him is a urban legend ? I'd read that was the story and the designer was shocked that it was put into production.

JDP/Maryland
63 R2 SuperHawk (Caesar)
spent to date $54664,75
64 R2 GT (Sid)
spent to date $62,839.60
63 Lark 2 door
51 Commander
39 Coupe express
39 Coupe express (rod)

jnewkirk77
01-15-2008, 08:33 PM
Dangit, John! ... sorry, I goofed. The Hurley one-off part is right. I gotta preview this stuff before I post. Keyboard gets ahead of brain sometimes. [B)]

Jacob Newkirk - Owensboro, KY

Currently driving an '87 Ford F-150, but I dream of having a Hawk one day. Don't we all?

jnewkirk77
01-15-2008, 08:33 PM
Dangit, John! ... sorry, I goofed. The Hurley one-off part is right. I gotta preview this stuff before I post. Keyboard gets ahead of brain sometimes. [B)]

Jacob Newkirk - Owensboro, KY

Currently driving an '87 Ford F-150, but I dream of having a Hawk one day. Don't we all?

bonehead007
01-16-2008, 06:43 AM
Actually the first Hawk, according to www.packardhawk.com was 58LS1001 and was built on 10/03/57 the last being 58LS1588 being built on 07/24/58....

Also, if anyone is interested , theres one on Craigslist in Colorodo up for sale for $16,000 ......

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q189/bonehead007/MVC-021F.jpg

New Jersey & Studes Perfect Together

bonehead007
01-16-2008, 06:43 AM
Actually the first Hawk, according to www.packardhawk.com was 58LS1001 and was built on 10/03/57 the last being 58LS1588 being built on 07/24/58....

Also, if anyone is interested , theres one on Craigslist in Colorodo up for sale for $16,000 ......

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q189/bonehead007/MVC-021F.jpg

New Jersey & Studes Perfect Together

Avantidon
01-16-2008, 10:06 AM
On 01/18/08 at the Arizona Biltmore in Pheonix LOT#120 at this RM Auction sale is a 1958 Packard Hawk with an auction estimate of $50-75K. My spies are looking at the car today. Also I have found that their (RM's) auction estimates are rather accurate for whatever the reason. I have attended several of their sales in the last 10 years including the one at Hershey last fall and they are always an amazing event.

See you in the future as I write about our past

Avantidon
01-16-2008, 10:06 AM
On 01/18/08 at the Arizona Biltmore in Pheonix LOT#120 at this RM Auction sale is a 1958 Packard Hawk with an auction estimate of $50-75K. My spies are looking at the car today. Also I have found that their (RM's) auction estimates are rather accurate for whatever the reason. I have attended several of their sales in the last 10 years including the one at Hershey last fall and they are always an amazing event.

See you in the future as I write about our past

bonehead007
01-16-2008, 10:27 AM
I you go to www.rmauctions.com click on arizona autions & do a search for Packard ,you will see the car thats going on the block..

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q189/bonehead007/MVC-021F.jpg

New Jersey & Studes Perfect Together

bonehead007
01-16-2008, 10:27 AM
I you go to www.rmauctions.com click on arizona autions & do a search for Packard ,you will see the car thats going on the block..

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q189/bonehead007/MVC-021F.jpg

New Jersey & Studes Perfect Together

M15 Trucker
01-16-2008, 11:18 AM
THAT SHOULD READ RMAUCTIONS WITH AN "S" AT THE END INSTEAD OF A "C"

M15 Trucker
01-16-2008, 11:18 AM
THAT SHOULD READ RMAUCTIONS WITH AN "S" AT THE END INSTEAD OF A "C"

Son O Lark
01-16-2008, 11:33 AM
Aren't the dashboards for Hawks also fiberglass under the turned aluminum?:)

Son O Lark
01-16-2008, 11:33 AM
Aren't the dashboards for Hawks also fiberglass under the turned aluminum?:)

bonehead007
01-16-2008, 11:47 AM
Sorry about that..retyped the link

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q189/bonehead007/MVC-021F.jpg

New Jersey & Studes Perfect Together

bonehead007
01-16-2008, 11:47 AM
Sorry about that..retyped the link

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q189/bonehead007/MVC-021F.jpg

New Jersey & Studes Perfect Together

Avantidon
01-16-2008, 12:23 PM
In the Cars that Matter Price Guide produced by our friend Dave Kinney, a Concourse Quality 58 P-H has avalue of$53.5K and his#2 which is most people's #1 is $41.2K. Anxious to see what this on egoes for.

See you in the future as I write about our past

Avantidon
01-16-2008, 12:23 PM
In the Cars that Matter Price Guide produced by our friend Dave Kinney, a Concourse Quality 58 P-H has avalue of$53.5K and his#2 which is most people's #1 is $41.2K. Anxious to see what this on egoes for.

See you in the future as I write about our past

bonehead007
01-16-2008, 12:46 PM
If you search Barrett-Jacksons website, this car was in their Scottsdale Auction in 2005 and went for 39500...

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q189/bonehead007/MVC-021F.jpg

New Jersey & Studes Perfect Together

bonehead007
01-16-2008, 12:46 PM
If you search Barrett-Jacksons website, this car was in their Scottsdale Auction in 2005 and went for 39500...

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q189/bonehead007/MVC-021F.jpg

New Jersey & Studes Perfect Together

Avantidon
01-17-2008, 07:51 AM
Interesting to see if it has appreciated any more in the last 3 years.

See you in the future as I write about our past

Avantidon
01-17-2008, 07:51 AM
Interesting to see if it has appreciated any more in the last 3 years.

See you in the future as I write about our past

MikeW
01-17-2008, 11:06 AM
There are a lot of errors in this article. I love where he claims there are about 100 of these cars left. Strange since I can name where 248 are and that is not all by a long shot. The car was originally referred to as "Hurley's Hawk" by the guys on the assembly line. They were not real happy to have to pull other things aside to assemble a Packard Hawk when one came down the line. So they tended to call them Hurley Hawks, not as an affectionate term.


Mike
www.packardhawk.com

MikeW
01-17-2008, 11:06 AM
There are a lot of errors in this article. I love where he claims there are about 100 of these cars left. Strange since I can name where 248 are and that is not all by a long shot. The car was originally referred to as "Hurley's Hawk" by the guys on the assembly line. They were not real happy to have to pull other things aside to assemble a Packard Hawk when one came down the line. So they tended to call them Hurley Hawks, not as an affectionate term.


Mike
www.packardhawk.com

monomaniac
01-17-2008, 11:16 AM
I agree with you, MikeW. The writer of this article has done next to zero research and knows not what he is talking about. There are more errors in the piece than there are facts.
I'm not sure that exposure of this kind is actually a good thing.

monomaniac
01-17-2008, 11:16 AM
I agree with you, MikeW. The writer of this article has done next to zero research and knows not what he is talking about. There are more errors in the piece than there are facts.
I'm not sure that exposure of this kind is actually a good thing.

MikeW
01-17-2008, 11:18 AM
By the way, there were no Packard Hawks painted Black and Red from the factory. Parade red was available only with Parchment White as a two tone or solid Parade Red as a solid color. The code for this car was P5856 which is Shadowtone Red Metallic base color and Parchment White top color.

Mike
www.packardhawk.com

MikeW
01-17-2008, 11:18 AM
By the way, there were no Packard Hawks painted Black and Red from the factory. Parade red was available only with Parchment White as a two tone or solid Parade Red as a solid color. The code for this car was P5856 which is Shadowtone Red Metallic base color and Parchment White top color.

Mike
www.packardhawk.com

Avantidon
01-17-2008, 12:01 PM
Steve Kash, the article's author must be a "stringer" who write occasionally for AutoWeek. As all have said he did not do much, if any, homework for this piece. I personally know of a P-H that may be unaccounted for but has been in my family for 35 years. When purchased from the junk yard it was a $440.00 investment. Today it is about 50% restored ready for reassembly. The Red and Black P-H being sold by RM Auctions is not an original paint schemed car. It has definitely been repainted.

See you in the future as I write about our past

Avantidon
01-17-2008, 12:01 PM
Steve Kash, the article's author must be a "stringer" who write occasionally for AutoWeek. As all have said he did not do much, if any, homework for this piece. I personally know of a P-H that may be unaccounted for but has been in my family for 35 years. When purchased from the junk yard it was a $440.00 investment. Today it is about 50% restored ready for reassembly. The Red and Black P-H being sold by RM Auctions is not an original paint schemed car. It has definitely been repainted.

See you in the future as I write about our past

bonehead007
01-17-2008, 02:23 PM
Who was the PH owner that he interviewed in the article. Perhaps he gave the misinformation to the articles author..Granted parts of it are way off but, it does bring attention to the car...

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q189/bonehead007/MVC-021F.jpg

New Jersey & Studes Perfect Together

bonehead007
01-17-2008, 02:23 PM
Who was the PH owner that he interviewed in the article. Perhaps he gave the misinformation to the articles author..Granted parts of it are way off but, it does bring attention to the car...

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q189/bonehead007/MVC-021F.jpg

New Jersey & Studes Perfect Together

TX Rebel
01-17-2008, 08:10 PM
Don, My K9 was also purchased from a junk yard- back in '70, just as it was being placed into the crusher, for even less than you paid for yours. At the time it was just an oddball used car from a defunct manufacturer, and had little value except to a few mostly penniless car nuts like me. A perfect example would have done well to bring $1500. back then. (Though it should be remembered that gold was $32./oz., and new full sized cars sold for about $4K)
Barry'd in Studes

Barry'd in Studes

TX Rebel
01-17-2008, 08:10 PM
Don, My K9 was also purchased from a junk yard- back in '70, just as it was being placed into the crusher, for even less than you paid for yours. At the time it was just an oddball used car from a defunct manufacturer, and had little value except to a few mostly penniless car nuts like me. A perfect example would have done well to bring $1500. back then. (Though it should be remembered that gold was $32./oz., and new full sized cars sold for about $4K)
Barry'd in Studes

Barry'd in Studes

Avantidon
01-18-2008, 12:23 PM
Barry, my 15 year old brother actually bought the car with my Dad. They had to walk to the back of the Junk Yard and it was not only wet but muddy and the car was sitting on its tires in mud. He was not a happy camper but the car was pulled out and taken home. Motor work was done Super Charger rebuilt and many parts were bought. Then it set in a heated garage in the dry until 2 years ago when my brother-in-law bought it pulled to PA disassembled it and we are now finally putting it back together. Can't wait until it is finished and back on the road.

See you in the future as I write about our past

Avantidon
01-18-2008, 12:23 PM
Barry, my 15 year old brother actually bought the car with my Dad. They had to walk to the back of the Junk Yard and it was not only wet but muddy and the car was sitting on its tires in mud. He was not a happy camper but the car was pulled out and taken home. Motor work was done Super Charger rebuilt and many parts were bought. Then it set in a heated garage in the dry until 2 years ago when my brother-in-law bought it pulled to PA disassembled it and we are now finally putting it back together. Can't wait until it is finished and back on the road.

See you in the future as I write about our past

studegary
01-18-2008, 01:06 PM
In 1961, I turned down a typical one owner used '58 Packard Hawk for $375. I didn't see a need to buy it since I had an excellent '57 President Classic at the time (and a '54 Ford campus car purchased from a Ford dealer for $35). The Packard Hawk was traded in to the local Chevrolet dealer. A wholesaler that picked up the car from the Chevy dealer offered it to me for $375. I figure that he probably paid $350, or less, for this average three year old Packard.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer

studegary
01-18-2008, 01:06 PM
In 1961, I turned down a typical one owner used '58 Packard Hawk for $375. I didn't see a need to buy it since I had an excellent '57 President Classic at the time (and a '54 Ford campus car purchased from a Ford dealer for $35). The Packard Hawk was traded in to the local Chevrolet dealer. A wholesaler that picked up the car from the Chevy dealer offered it to me for $375. I figure that he probably paid $350, or less, for this average three year old Packard.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer

Avantidon
01-18-2008, 01:48 PM
Check the other thread on Arizona Auctions as the Packard Hawk was hammered sold at the RM sale for $67.5K plus fees within the past 20 minutes.

See you in the future as I write about our past

Avantidon
01-18-2008, 01:48 PM
Check the other thread on Arizona Auctions as the Packard Hawk was hammered sold at the RM sale for $67.5K plus fees within the past 20 minutes.

See you in the future as I write about our past

mbstude
01-18-2008, 05:39 PM
I'm suprised that my grandad hasn't chimed in with the story of the P-Hawk he didn't buy. This was in the early 70's IIRC, and the car was dirt cheap. He didn't buy it because it had a busted windshield. He thought it was cost a fortune to have a glass made, and passed. Once he learned more about the marque, he found out that the windshield from the GT Hawk parts cat he had at the time would've fit just fine.

[b]Matthew Burnette
'59 Scotsman
'63 Daytona
Hazlehurst, GA
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/Scotsman%20pickup/0000_59_truck__avatar_december.jpg

mbstude
01-18-2008, 05:39 PM
I'm suprised that my grandad hasn't chimed in with the story of the P-Hawk he didn't buy. This was in the early 70's IIRC, and the car was dirt cheap. He didn't buy it because it had a busted windshield. He thought it was cost a fortune to have a glass made, and passed. Once he learned more about the marque, he found out that the windshield from the GT Hawk parts cat he had at the time would've fit just fine.

[b]Matthew Burnette
'59 Scotsman
'63 Daytona
Hazlehurst, GA
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/Scotsman%20pickup/0000_59_truck__avatar_december.jpg

rockinhawk
01-19-2008, 10:49 AM
If I could only go back! The car Matthew is refering to was J'ville Fla at a muffler shop owned by a friend of mine. At that time Fla had a strict inspection program, and a cracked windshield was a definate no-no. Iknew there were only about 500 of these cars made. for some reason It looked much bigger than a Stude Hawk. I could have owned the car for $150. I passed it up and later learned that the glass in my parts car would fit. By then the car was long gone. There is still a PH running around down there. I like to think it's the same car and someone with better foresight than me saved it. NT


Neil Thornton
Hazlehurst, GA
'57 Silver Hawk
'56 Sky Hawk
'51 2R16 dump truck
Many others.
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/avatar2.jpg

rockinhawk
01-19-2008, 10:49 AM
If I could only go back! The car Matthew is refering to was J'ville Fla at a muffler shop owned by a friend of mine. At that time Fla had a strict inspection program, and a cracked windshield was a definate no-no. Iknew there were only about 500 of these cars made. for some reason It looked much bigger than a Stude Hawk. I could have owned the car for $150. I passed it up and later learned that the glass in my parts car would fit. By then the car was long gone. There is still a PH running around down there. I like to think it's the same car and someone with better foresight than me saved it. NT


Neil Thornton
Hazlehurst, GA
'57 Silver Hawk
'56 Sky Hawk
'51 2R16 dump truck
Many others.
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/avatar2.jpg