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joehev
07-12-2017, 04:32 PM
The car has power brakes that haven't worked for over 10 years. But the car did stop as with non-power regular brakes. It hadn't been run for about 5 years, and when I tried to get it going the brakes didn't work. The brake pedal went to the floor. When I pumped it, some braking comes back, but only temporarily.

Any ideas would be helpful, please.

Joe Hevesy
Huntingdon QC

Corvanti
07-12-2017, 05:14 PM
i'd start with bleeding the brakes to see if it gets all the air out of the lines and gives you a full pedal. but - since it has been sitting for awhile, you may need new lines, rebuild/new master cylinder and wheel cylinders, etc.

start with the easiest first. inspect the others mentioned and do a brake fluid flush.

PackardV8
07-12-2017, 06:10 PM
start with the easiest first. inspect the others mentioned and do a brake fluid flush.

Agree - Flush and bleed all four wheel cylinders, the booster and the master cylinder as per Shop Manual instructions. A pressure flush tank makes it go much faster and more reliably.

jack vines

JoeHall
07-12-2017, 10:25 PM
The very first thing, make sure the master cylinder is full. Usually, if dry and topped up before too much pumping, the brakes will come back by themselves. Just takes a couple of hundred slow pumps on the pedal. Pump slowly, and stop and pause about 30 seconds after each 10-15 pumps.

joehev
07-13-2017, 05:16 AM
i'd start with bleeding the brakes to see if it gets all the air out of the lines and gives you a full pedal. but - since it has been sitting for awhile, you may need new lines, rebuild/new master cylinder and wheel cylinders, etc.

start with the easiest first. inspect the others mentioned and do a brake fluid flush.


Thank you, Corvanti. Starting with the easiest sounds right.

joehev
07-13-2017, 05:22 AM
The very first thing, make sure the master cylinder is full. Usually, if dry and topped up before too much pumping, the brakes will come back by themselves. Just takes a couple of hundred slow pumps on the pedal. Pump slowly, and stop and pause about 30 seconds after each 10-15 pumps.

Thanks, Joe. The master cylinder is full, but when I topped up I used regular brake fluid instead of silicone fluid that was already in the lines. Don't know if that makes any difference. But I think I'll flush it all out anyway.

joehev
07-13-2017, 05:25 AM
Agree - Flush and bleed all four wheel cylinders, the booster and the master cylinder as per Shop Manual instructions. A pressure flush tank makes it go much faster and more reliably.

jack vines

A local garage guy I know can do a pressure flush. Will turn that over to him. Thanks, Jack.

Skip Lackie
07-13-2017, 08:14 AM
Thanks, Joe. The master cylinder is full, but when I topped up I used regular brake fluid instead of silicone fluid that was already in the lines. Don't know if that makes any difference. But I think I'll flush it all out anyway.

The two fluid types will not mix! Yes, you will need to flush the whole system, and (in my opinion) you should (1) blow out all old fluid with compressed air, (2) flush the system with alcohol or acetone, (3) blow that out with more air, (4) refill with silicone fluid, as your rubber parts will have gotten used to that.

joehev
07-13-2017, 09:05 AM
The two fluid types will not mix! Yes, you will need to flush the whole system, and (in my opinion) you should (1) blow out all old fluid with compressed air, (2) flush the system with alcohol or acetone, (3) blow that out with more air, (4) refill with silicone fluid, as your rubber parts will have gotten used to that.

Okay, Skip. Sounds like a good plan. Thank you.

Buzzard
07-13-2017, 12:41 PM
As above. Plus in the past I have liberally sprayed WD40 (or similar) into the filter on the booster. This can help free things up if slightly seized.
Bill

JoeHall
07-13-2017, 02:30 PM
Mixing DOT 3 and 5 causes MAJOR PROBLEMS with every rubber component in the system. Best fix is to disassemble everything rubber, clean thoroughly, and replace anything beginning to swell, including the rubber lines. Good luck with that.

joehev
07-13-2017, 05:56 PM
As above. Plus in the past I have liberally sprayed WD40 (or similar) into the filter on the booster. This can help free things up if slightly seized.
Bill

Thanks, Buzz. Will try that.

joehev
07-13-2017, 05:57 PM
Mixing DOT 3 and 5 causes MAJOR PROBLEMS with every rubber component in the system. Best fix is to disassemble everything rubber, clean thoroughly, and replace anything beginning to swell, including the rubber lines. Good luck with that.

Thanks, Joe. We'll try the simple stuff and see what happens. Appreciate the advice.

Steve Winzar
07-14-2017, 02:37 AM
Hi Joe- I have been in a somewhat similar situation to your self only lately. I have just bought a GT Hawk from an owner that hasn't driven it i for over a year and had to have it freighted with no brakes working. This was a car that had been driven but obviously been badly maintained by the last two 'non Studebaker' people. I decided that going the simple route, like you have been advised by others, would be a sensible route. The job has taken three weeks - the first two days were a waste of time because I took that long to realise I was dealing with a huge litany of problems. Bear with me please, because I spent an awfully long time checking, bleeding, checking diagnosing, jacking up/down...... -
1. Power brake booster shot and needed rebuild (here in Australia we use a locally sourced remote Booster, a PBR VH44).
2. Found at least three jamming pistons in wheel cylinders so wasted time 'exercising' these
3. Rear brakes getting NO FLlUID, found Rear Flex hose collapsed within (apparently not an uncommon problem)
4. Renew All three flexible brake hoses.
5. Replaced (3) steel brake lines running front to back and both running to rear drums- the rest will be done soon. These lines looked rusty on the outside and are 55 years old, God only knows what they are like internally. (I have seen the result of a corroded line in my brothers' Morris Mini and I learned a lesson from that incident),
6. I also found badly adjusted brakes with one parking brake link fallen into the works, with no anti rattle clips.
Joe, I am not trying to beat this issue up nor put my hand in your pocked, but at risk of being criticised, don't expect the problem to be mitigated simply. If your GH has never had new brakelines then renew those. Pop the wheel cyls and give 'em a clean out. I spent far too much time going over old ground and wasted my time and effort.
Regards, and good luck-
Steve

Mrs K Corbin
07-14-2017, 07:43 AM
What Joe Hall Said :eek: unfortunately you got a rebuild to do.

PackardV8
07-14-2017, 12:52 PM
Joe Hall has more maintenance experience with Studes than anyone I know, but on this one, your results may vary. The DOT 3/DOT 5 mixing is sort of like the never-ending discussion about 10% ethanol being death to fuel systems. Because it's relatively lower humidity here in the frozen northwest, I don't see the problems some report from ethanol.

Could be the same with brake fluid, as DOT 3 is deliquescent; it adsorbs water and holds it in suspension. DOT 5 does not adsorb water and any water getting in settles in the lower parts of the brake system in globules. Some years back I went through a brake system which had DOT 5 in it and then the empty reservoir was topped up with DOT 3 and driven that way a couple of years. I disassembled the system and didn't find any deterioration of the rubber parts.

On the other hand, I've seen brake systems from humid areas which had only DOT 3 or only DOT 5 for their entire life, and the rubber parts were "perished" and there was rust evident in the lines and the cylinders. It just depends on age, maintenance, use and luck.

Good brakes are cheap at any price, so follow professional advice. As always, personal experience is no guarantee of similar results on your car in your area in your future.

We have a member here who engineers military vehicles for use in the worst possible environs. (About time, as the life of a hydraulic system in Viet Nam was measured in weeks. To get to a maintenance depot, I once drove a M151 through traffic in Hue, having no brakes or clutch.) Maybe he'll give an update as to what is happening in hydraulic fluid design.

jack vines

joehev
07-26-2017, 07:17 PM
Thanks everyone for your thoughtful replies. My friendly mechanic has seen them all and is working on the solution. I'd love to work on it myself, but he has the experience and the facilities and the time...at a price. I'll check back later and let you know about the results.
Joe Hevesy.