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View Full Version : Brakes: What would you do; install freshly turned brakes on chassis that will still sit 1-2 yrs? (in MN)



bsrosell
07-10-2017, 12:01 AM
hi,
have NOS front and rear brake drums for my '57 Golden Hawk. Installed bearing races (front) and took them all down to Minneapolis Brake and Equipment, and had them swage in the hubs, and then touch up a tad to fit the new shoes.
(yes, I kept the sets of shoes matched to the drums).
By the way, that is where Jay Leno brings stuff (that his private guys can't do I suppose?). Machinist supervisor had a framed photo of him with Jay in tuxes at a Mpls event, Jay was alone in town, asked if he wanted to go with him, as he sends him stuff often over the years and gotten to know him. Obviously he's quite the car guy and a GREAT guy to talk to, as long as you treat him like a normal person and DON'T start asking about his celebrity life.

REGARDLESS, that was a couple years ago, and I applied lubriplate to the raw fresh steel and put 'em in plastic bags in the house. Knew they'd sit for a long time at my slow pace.

NOW: have finished the raw frame, installed rear springs, differential, axles, backing plates, and am about to install the new/cleaned brake components on the back, before moving to the front end and putting THAT all back together again, and will have same issue when those brakes finally get installed; DO I DARE CLEAN THE LUBRIPLATE OFF THE FRESHLY TURNED STEEL OF THE BRAKE DRUMS, and install "permanently" so I can put on wheels/tires and continue with engine, making gas / brake lines, etc... and THEN working on the body (off the car on a cart now, new floors and such welded in but not blasted or primed, fenders, hood, deck lid all off and stored).

ISSUE: those brakes drums will be sitting in my shop (dry but unheated, in Minnesota) for at least another winter or two before I get to where I can DRIVE it. (I'm still using a walker and unable to walk without something to 'touch', or carry heavy things (rolling chair is getting a workout!); darned if this thing I've got is going to beat me, but has slowed me down, and especially is going to be slow going with the body and will need to find help then)

One alternative would be to still remove the Lubriplate, wipe the surface with some WD40, and CAREFULLY slide them on over fully retracted brake shoes, and NOT install them tightly in rear, and still putting on tires. Then when ready to drive, remove the drums, clean thoroughly and install and torque to spec all the way around. But not sure if that is necessary; and sure don't want to get ANY lubricant on those brake shoes!!!

Thoughts? Maybe just the 'fumes' from the bearing grease inside all those fairly well closed wheel cavities is enough to protect the freshly cut drum surface in a dry shop, hot-to-cold-to-hot Minnesota 65478weather not withstanding. I DROVE my Model-A Ford chassis w/ "new brake drums" without a body on it (plywood board with gas tank and place to mount coil and instrument "panel" :-) So, never been faced with this or asked about it before.

Thanks!
Barry

doofus
07-10-2017, 07:04 AM
I'd vote to leave the drums off and stored 'till the last minute. plan"B" wipe off most of the grease, use wide tape to protect shoes and install drums"For Now". later remove and clean drum surface.that fresh metal has already developed rust under the Lubriplate. for years in Fl i installed freshly turned drums that would sit long periods before use and put them to use Sight un seen. the thin coat of rust was soon gone and never had a problem.even bagged in plastic they will rust unless you live in dry Southwestern states. Keep up the good work, rolling chairs are cheap! Luck Doofus

Dwight FitzSimons
07-10-2017, 09:32 AM
One way to store clean, rust-free steel or iron parts is in a plastic bucket of stagnant water. Believe it or not! Back when I was taking chemistry in college I did this as a test of what I had learned. I placed a set of disc brake cylinders in a plastic bucket of water that had had a couple months of time for the dissolved oxygen to escape out of it. I left them in there for a year. They came out clean as a whistle, with no rust. The chemistry lesson here is that it is not the oxygen in H2O, nor the O2 component of the air that causes rust (oxidation). It is the dissolved oxygen in water that causes rust, chemically denoted as H2O.O2 (H2O dot O2). You may not want to use this inconvenient manner of storing iron parts, but is useful to know how rust occurs in order to prevent it. You have to keep the dissolved oxygen in water away from the metal.
-Dwight

Treblig
07-10-2017, 10:06 AM
When I install new dry drums that will sit for a while I always coat them with any color spray paint. It seals the bare surface and after sitting for a few days the paint completely dries. When you finally get around to driving the car the paint simply gets rubbed off leaving the clean dry metal just like the day you installed it. Sometimes the simplest/easiest solution is the best.


Treblig

swvalcon
07-10-2017, 10:13 AM
Barry Will this frame be inside the shop or out? makes a big difference here in mn. Inside I wouldn't worry to much about the rust. Yes you may get a slight rust just from moisture in the air but not enough that it wont come off the first time the brakes are applied.

Mike Sal
07-10-2017, 10:35 AM
Not to drift this thread, but another thing to watch out for on a chassis that will set for a while is the fuel tank. I had a '66 gas tank that was not rusty, but the old gas had turned into goo when I bought the car. I had it boiled out nice & clean, stuffed some rags in the holes, and let it set in a storage spot in the machine shed for 3 years (not protected from temperature or moisture in the air other than the rags in the holes). Last week I pulled it out & was surprised to hear "stuff" rattling around inside. Pulled the rags out & looked in with a flashlight to see lots & lots of big scaled rust. The tank is so bad, I can't use it.....I should have poured some oil into it & sloshed it around until ready to use....I'm really bummed out about it....
Mike Sal

swvalcon
07-10-2017, 12:45 PM
Mike Oil or even a can of wd-40 emptied by spraying into it. That's what a lot of the alcohol fueled drag race guy do if they let their car set more than a week. Knew one guy that had a quick disconnect at the fuel cell. Then he would start the car on idle and empty a can of wd up the fuel line so it coated everything from the tank to the carb. Said he could let it set until he went racing again even it was once a month and it would start right up and run fine. Said if you didn't do that everything would be just green from the tank to the motor.

bsrosell
07-10-2017, 01:02 PM
Mike, re: "another thing to watch out for on a chassis that will set for a while is the fuel tank."....
ouch. I had my tank cooked out, and then coated at ReNu, so THAT at least is not a rust issue for me. (my original looked like swiss cheese on the bottom; wasn't going to let that happen again!)
Sorry for your loss, hope you find a good one soon for replacement.

bsrosell
07-10-2017, 01:13 PM
Yes, I have a fully insulated (gap under garage doors, dang concrete goes up and down like a yo-yo with the frost) but it is dry as a bone except for air-humidity and the unavoidable temperature changes over the seasons here.

I'm thinking Doofus, as usual, as an excellent fool-proof way of making SURE, but I'm inclined to consider the light coat of a good High-grade version of the Rustoleum primers on the drums and install them. I really am in a race against time (probably; Mayo may be successful but I'm determined to get this done before I get worse and possibly CAN'T work on it). So, the less "undo/redo" things the better. Yes, I know a VERY THIN coat of primer will allow a very thin coat of rust, but as someone said, it will all get rubbed off pretty quick by the shoes. Just don't want to gum up the shoes with primer, but just a thin spray is appealing, I'm wanting to avoid any rust SPOTS, and will wear rubber gloves after brake cleaner, and spraying, and then when I install the drums. Will still leave them adusted "loose" so no rubbing off of the 'haze' of primer on there...

Still open to suggestions or strong feelings otherwise, or concerns of primer gumming up in the brake shoe lining being WORSE than a little surface rust....??? I appreciate the advice and as a MECHANICAL engineer, appreciate the chemistry lesson; I had never heard that before, fascinating..... !

Barry Will this frame be inside the shop or out? makes a big difference here in mn. Inside I wouldn't worry to much about the rust. Yes you may get a slight rust just from moisture in the air but not enough that it wont come off the first time the brakes are applied.

GrumpyOne
07-10-2017, 04:10 PM
One way to store clean, rust-free steel or iron parts is in a plastic bucket of stagnant water. Believe it or not! Back when I was taking chemistry in college I did this as a test of what I had learned. I placed a set of disc brake cylinders in a plastic bucket of water that had had a couple months of time for the dissolved oxygen to escape out of it. I left them in there for a year. They came out clean as a whistle, with no rust. The chemistry lesson here is that it is not the oxygen in H2O, nor the O2 component of the air that causes rust (oxidation). It is the dissolved oxygen in water that causes rust, chemically denoted as H2O.O2 (H2O dot O2). You may not want to use this inconvenient manner of storing iron parts, but is useful to know how rust occurs in order to prevent it. You have to keep the dissolved oxygen in water away from the metal.
-Dwight

Bingo! Using physics as opposed to brute labor. Here are a few examples…

1. Stuck engines: Drain all lubricant and place in a tub of water that can have some citrus added. The common denominator, (moisture facilitated the corrosion to begin with and water will disolve it). I might take a week or a month but it WILL work. I remember diving on ships that were sunk during World War II and the hatches etc still opened and closed some forty years later.

2. Installing suspension bushings: Heat the area where removal/installation will take place to about 150° and they will practically slide in. Same goes for crankshaft hub/damper assembies.

Work smart, not hard…