PDA

View Full Version : Engine: Engine bearing brand



plee4139
07-07-2017, 10:48 AM
I expect to have to have the engine bearings replaced in my 289. I realize that there are many variables in brands and types. The car is driven moderately, never pushed, and well-maintained.

345 DeSoto
07-07-2017, 11:18 AM
Studebaker International, Fairborn Studebaker. Studebaker Vendors list...

4jc8z
07-07-2017, 11:31 AM
Actually unless one finds some old stock bearings, there is really minimal variation. In Studebaker World, if you buy it from Dick, Harry, Joe, or Bob they are the same stuff.

There are two variations:

1) the Chinese (Taiwan) ones that Studebaker International sells. They come in a plain white box with no MFG identification. They are also sold by other Studebaker 'vendors', but the original source is SI. Multiple reports of bearing slow failure: the animation of Tom Molnar comes to mind wanting to strangle Ed R at Bonnie Doons in South Bend after his oil turned metallic paint looking. Ed's candid reply at that cruise in was "nobody runs their cars that much anymore". Some of these bearings said made in China on the plain white box, but the bearing shells had a Fm mark on the back....Most white box ones have no mark on the back or a "SR" code. At the time, everybody just assumed the F/M marked ones were Federal Mogul bearings stuck in a different box. I'm not so sure, I suspect that "f/m" mark may mean something other then Federal Mogul....let people think it is, and in reality F/M means Funhong Manufacturing.

2) The other one is 'sealed power' ones that RPM wholesale sells to vendors, such as Phil Harris, Dave T-bow, Myers, Chuck Collins, etc. They are made exclusively for RPM Studebaker Wholesale; one can NOT order them through a normal Sealed Power avenue. People has said these are better, but I'm not sure, had problems with them in 2008 and again in 2011. They are for sure NOT the good ol Sealed Power bearings Made in Muskegon, Michigan pre late 1990's. These 'new' sealed power bearings are made in Mexico (regardless of what Chuck Collins website said for years). At SB this year one vendor had some that had a "made in Malaysia" sticker over the made in Mexico Sealed Power box.

We were distributors for awhile for RPM wholesale studebaker parts. After awhile based on our own experiences rebuilding engines stopped selling bearings about 2011 due to the crapshoot of what was in the box. Had a set of the STD Sealed Power main bearings that would not plastigauge reasonably (used STD bearings plastigauged better, NOS stude ones plastigauged perfect), and had a set of Sealed Power rods last about 200 miles - and RPM owner Rich Marks said they had some problems with some at that time.

What Egge sells for a Stude V8 has been tainted - they bought out Lionel Stone's stock of pistons and bearings after Lionel's accident. I don't need say more; everybody knows Lionel's stuff could be of interesting quality.

The best is if you can find old stock pre-early 2000's ones around, or find some of the now scarce Clevite 77's. Expect to pay more then the $60 SI sells a set of chineese bearings for. The last time I managed to get Clevites, they were a hundred and some a set WHOLESALE.

plee4139
07-07-2017, 02:30 PM
Studebaker International, Fairborn Studebaker. Studebaker Vendors list...

Here's the issues I have. First is that if I pick out them and there's a problem later on then it's my problem because I bought them. If the engine rebuilder buys then then they're his problem. I'd rather go by brand name, so that I know what I'm dealing with.

swvalcon
07-07-2017, 03:13 PM
I have always found Clevite 77s, Federal mogul to be about the same in quality. What I liked best was King made in Israel came in plain white box to rebuilders and king label on others. Use to buy them $1000 min.order and my Dads shop we went though most months two to three orders a month. Same with gasket sets used sealed power which are Fel pro in a brown box with a sealed power sticker and Detroit Gasket which where just as good if not better those we got at just under $15. a set and had to use the fork lift to get pallet out of back of the delivery truck. Most orders where 25 sets of about every engine that we rebuild on a regular bases.

tsenecal
07-07-2017, 06:47 PM
Some may think that one of the posts was demeaning to Studebaker vendors, but I think that it's nice to know about the quality issues that some of the vendors are facing. I don't really think of it as bashing them. They are sourcing what parts they can find, or having them reproduced, and if there is an issue with poor quality, they and their customers should be informed about it.

bezhawk
07-07-2017, 09:37 PM
If the only feedback about quality is complaining on a public forum, then the vendor has no chance to improve or demand better from HIS suppliers. Please people take it to the proper channels before taking it here.

StudeRich
07-07-2017, 10:13 PM
That is right Bez, it reminds me of the issue with the Oil Leaking Airtex Fuel Pumps, where I think it might have been Jeff Rice who said: well if no one complains to the source, how do they know there is a problem! :ohmy:

r1lark
07-07-2017, 10:19 PM
That is right Bez, it reminds me of the issue with the Oil Leaking Airtex Fuel Pumps, where I think it might have been Jeff Rice who said: well if no one complains to the source, how do they know there is a problem! :ohmy:

According to post #3, it sounds like at least one person complained: 'the animation of Tom Molnar comes to mind wanting to strangle Ed R at Bonnie Doons in South Bend after his oil turned metallic paint looking. Ed's candid reply at that cruise in was "nobody runs their cars that much anymore".'

DieselJim
07-07-2017, 10:38 PM
I have not had any trouble with bearings purchased from SI. Running them in sons R2 Lark and he has a BIG foot.

JoeHall
07-07-2017, 11:53 PM
I am sure most of us would prefer NOS bearings from the 1970s-1980s, but its getting hard to find them.The last Stude 289 I rebuilt was April 2012. IIRC, I bought the bearings and gaskets from SI, and pistons, rings, and other stuff from Phil Harris. That was 37,000 miles ago, and its still holding the same oil pressure it has been since break in, about 48-50 PSI at 2000-2500 RPM. I do not believe I have a bearing problem yet, but now that y'all mentioned the above, will keep an eye on it. LOL

OTOH, the piston situation has gotten a lot better. I just love the KB hypers I installed in the above rebuild.

For 56J motors, have had excellent results with King Bearing, from Israel since the early 2000s, when they first came available.

StudeRich
07-08-2017, 01:14 AM
Hey Joe since those "KB Hypers" are SO good, maybe you could share with us what that means in English. :)

As far as I know, the only Studebaker Pistons currently available are Silv-O-Lite and Egge.

plee4139
07-08-2017, 06:40 AM
Such a heated discussion over some car parts. What a group! Now, please answer me this: Assuming the bushings are replaced, can the crankshaft be polished and re-calibrated? It was worked on at the time the engine was rebuilt but I don't have any other specifics. Please don't get into a kerfuffle over it. Just the facts, ma'am.

r1lark
07-08-2017, 07:15 AM
Such a heated discussion over some car parts. What a group! Now, please answer me this: Assuming the bushings are replaced, can the crankshaft be polished and re-calibrated? It was worked on at the time the engine was rebuilt but I don't have any other specifics. Please don't get into a kerfuffle over it. Just the facts, ma'am.

Whether the crank can just be polished and reused will depend on the condition and measurements of the journals. Best to take it to an experienced machinist to determine that. Get the crank inspected before ordering new bearings.

Not sure what you mean by "recalibrating" the crankshaft........:confused:

64studeavanti
07-08-2017, 07:48 AM
The last set of pistons I got from SI were YCP. They are holding up well so far. YCP seems to have a good rep worldwide.

swvalcon
07-08-2017, 08:05 AM
Joe Hall. I dont know about Packard bearings they may have come out in 2000's but I used King bearings in the late 80's and 90's

JoeHall
07-08-2017, 08:29 AM
Hey Joe since those "KB Hypers" are SO good, maybe you could share with us what that means in English. :)

As far as I know, the only Studebaker Pistons currently available are Silv-O-Lite and Egge.

Hi Rich,
They are Keith Black hypereutectic pistons. Sounds like they might not b e available anymore, if you have not heard of them. As mentioned, I got them from Phil Harris.

OTOH, if Jack Vines says the EGGEs are better now, I am sure we can take that to the bank.

Joe H.

52-fan
07-08-2017, 09:11 AM
Some of this thread makes it sound like, if you wanted to build a good Studebaker engine, the ship has already sailed. :(
One of my dreams or "bucket list" items is to have one really good high performance Studebaker engine. Some of these comments make me think that, unless I find NOS bearings, I might as well buy a Chevy. I hope that is not true.

tsenecal
07-08-2017, 11:25 AM
Chuck Collins advertises "made in America" bearings kits. That's where mine came from, and silvolite pistons.

4jc8z
07-08-2017, 12:19 PM
Chuck Collins advertises "made in America" bearings kits. That's where mine came from, and silvolite pistons.

Technically, the bearings he advertises are made in "North America".....Mexico. The sealed power bearings outlined in my post #3

Now the durabond cam bearings he sells are indeed USA and very nice.

DEEPNHOCK
07-08-2017, 12:50 PM
Humorous to read all the 'brand names' attached to products, but little is known about who owns what....
IIRC.....Clevite used to be a stand alone company, and they were purchased by British owned conglomerate.
Then they were swept up in the Federal-Mogul purchase of Abex friction (a sister company to Clevite).
The ftc saw F/M trying to corner the shell bearing business, and made them spin off Clevite as part of the agreement to let them buy Abex.
They spun Clevite off to Mahle.

Mahle owns Clevite today... (Mahle is one of the 20 largest automotive suppliers in the world)...
https://catalog.mahle-aftermarket.com/na/home/index.xhtml

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sealed Power has a Vintage name attached to it now... Still owned by Federal/Mogul

http://www.sealedpowervintage.com/

http://www.sealedpowervintage.com/product/engine-bearings/

swvalcon
07-08-2017, 02:42 PM
Jeff your right about Mahle. I think they bought out about everyone.

dpson
07-08-2017, 03:30 PM
In a recent post I mentioned that I had a V8 that had been rebuilt and had bad bearings in less than 5000 miles. These bearings were marked f/m and were dated 06/99. To go back and try to make a case to a vendor/manufacturer that these bearings were bad and "failed" would be a waste of time. To prove this was the actual cause of the failure, as opposed to other possible causes, without a considerable expense of time and money would not make the effort worthwhile and that may be part of the reason that these failures are not reported back to the vendor(s).

StudeRich
07-08-2017, 09:12 PM
So Dan, are you saying unless PROVEN otherwise, this COULD be a case of poor cleaning or assembly procedures?

"Just try'in to get the facts Mam!" Er ... Sir. :D Stolen quote from the old "Dragnet" TV Series.

64Avanti
07-09-2017, 01:23 AM
Most bearing failures are due to either contamination or lack of lubrication. If all is well once the engine starts and is running there should be no contact between the bearings and the crankshaft. When you put an engine together you should inspect all bearing to crankshaft clearances.

If someone sees metal in the oil they should pull the pan and inspect. It might be bearings or it might be something else like piston scuffing.

doofus
07-09-2017, 07:34 AM
It would be interesting to do an autopsy on cheap chinese or other non USA made bearings. bet other causes are reason for failures. have seen some dodgy practices in various "Engine Rebuilder's" over the years. Luck Doofus

PackardV8
07-09-2017, 03:35 PM
have seen some dodgy practices in various "Engine Rebuilder's" over the years. Luck Doofus

The most common are not removing the rocker adjusting screws, rocker shaft end plugs and the two plugs in the rear of the block to enable them to be thoroughly cleaned. There's usually a cup full of crud hiding in those three areas. Fresh high detergent oil will flush out a good percentage of the crud, right into the new bearings. (Of course, not reinstalling those plugs has been known to happen.)

jack vines

64Avanti
07-11-2017, 07:19 PM
Quite a few of the pictures I have seen of failed engine bearings are not failed bearings due to a bearing problem but contamination or inadequate clearance.

SN-60
07-11-2017, 08:22 PM
Some may think that one of the posts was demeaning to Studebaker vendors, but I think that it's nice to know about the quality issues that some of the vendors are facing. I don't really think of it as bashing them. They are sourcing what parts they can find, or having them reproduced, and if there is an issue with poor quality, they and their customers should be informed about it.

VERY well said! :!: