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3x2stude
07-04-2017, 11:06 PM
I tore down a '63 289 this holiday weekend as I need a block for my Weber motor build. It seems a bit on the crusty side on the inside. It was a free spinning motor with all the internals in good shape including the cam and crank. I think that it was stored for a couple of decades though without draining the water jacket. It seems to have never frozen as it was in a heated basement but the water jacket is just solid with sawdust like rust fluff. Is this block junk? I am planning on 0.060" overbore. I would like some input.

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tsenecal
07-04-2017, 11:31 PM
I just built a 289 last year, that looked pretty similar. I cleaned out what I could , then had it hot tanked. The guy that did it, said he soaked it once, pressure washed as much as he could, then soaked it again. It came out nice, with a .060 oversize bore, R1 cam, flat top silvolite pistons, 1557582 heads, and had the rotating assy. balanced. have only run it to break in the cam, and a few other times. Still finishing body work and paint.

doofus
07-05-2017, 06:58 AM
Shouldn't be a problem.if unsure have the cyls. sonic checked. a good machinist can hear a thin cylinder being bored. a sleeve would solve that problem. remember "Back in the day" folks bored 'em 090 to 125 over! Luck Doofus

4jc8z
07-05-2017, 09:53 AM
Dude, normal studebaker crap in the block. Wash it out, hot tank it (NOT shot blast/oven) and call it good.

sals54
07-05-2017, 02:49 PM
I've seen worse than that on running engines. Get ready to get messy unless the machine shop is doing it. Pressure washer, lots of blowback, cr*p flying every which way, goggles, hat, rubber booties... the whole nine yards.

RadioRoy
07-05-2017, 03:21 PM
Are the surfaces that hold the freeze/core/frost plugs still sound and will they hold new plugs?

PackardV8
07-05-2017, 04:26 PM
the water jacket is just solid with sawdust like rust fluff. Is this block junk? I am planning on 0.060" overbore. I would like some input.Yes, most are that bad and worse. Getting everything clean is the most difficult part of a rebuild. I often have to use long chisels made from 1/4" square steel to dislodge crud out of the lower rear corners of the block. Some of it is leftover core sand Studebaker never bothered to remove.


Pressure washer, lots of blowback, cr*p flying every which way, goggles, hat, rubber booties... the whole nine yards.Any Studebaker block is a crapshoot literally. We routinely bore .117" over with no problems, except when there is a problem at only .060".

We recently had a normally rusty 289" open a hole in a cylinder wall at only .060" over. Best guess is there was a piece of slag in the iron which rusted faster than normal Stude rust.

That's what gives nightmares to we builders of rusty old junk is the fear that rust pit might be hiding .010" under the shiny bore after honing.

We sonic test for wall thickness, but it's literally impossible to cover every square inch of every cylinder, so there's always the rare occurrence of that localized rust pit going undiscovered. Most times, you're OK at .060".

jack vines

3x2stude
07-05-2017, 09:11 PM
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Here's all the frost plug holes. #2 is cherry, #s 1, 3, 4 & 5 are dicey and not what I call iron any more. #6 is gone. Can an engine shop take them out to the next size to regain a land for the plug?

JK

64studeavanti
07-05-2017, 09:25 PM
I'm sure others will chime in, but if this is a full flow block with cup style plugs, you are likely good. If dish plugs - not so good.

64studeavanti
07-05-2017, 09:27 PM
Just re-read original post
This is a 63 block. So it has cup style plugs. As long as they are a tight fit you are good to go.

sweetolbob
07-05-2017, 09:28 PM
Here's all the frost plug holes. #2 is cherry, #s 1, 3, 4 & 5 are dicey and not what I call iron any more. #6 is gone. Can an engine shop take them out to the next size to regain a land for the plug?

JK

Why not do what Jeff R did, clean them out and tap for pipe plugs. Bob

3x2stude
07-05-2017, 10:16 PM
So if they are too gnarly on the circumference they could be taken out a smidgeon on the OD, use an oversized plug and no worries on the missing land as many motors do not have one anyway. I think I am good for now. Feeling better.

Thanks,

JK

4jc8z
07-05-2017, 10:19 PM
That is what they make permatex #1 for when you put the new freeze plugs in. Seriously, seen much worse. Don't fret it, you have the normal for an old Stude V8

3x2stude
07-05-2017, 10:35 PM
Sorry for the paranoia, thanks for all the help.

JK

skyway
07-06-2017, 02:12 PM
Is that the pipe threaded drain plug hole to the right of hole "6"?
If so, I see no threads.

tsenecal
07-06-2017, 02:36 PM
Good machine shops can work wonders.

JoeHall
07-06-2017, 03:00 PM
This is a simple. yet critical area, and glad you are concerned up front. Some machinists will, "clean up" the surface by removing metal and, in doing so, make the hole slightly too large to properly hold the plug in place later. If the surface cleans up with a small, drill mounted wire wheel, then it is probably OK. Bit if the circumference must be enlarged, even slightly, either go to next size plug, or threaded plugs, as Jeff did. Ever once in awhile on here, some posts about those plugs blowing out while going down the road. They do not simple, "blow out" if fitted properly, and Permatex is not the answer, to hold them in place. (That is like a band aid on a sucking chest wound.)

With the machinist's work, "trust but verify". Someone above pointed out the threads in the 3/8" pipe plug hole, and you want to take a similar approach with those as with the 1.5" plugs. I had a machinist once crack the block while removing that 3/8" plug. Not sure if he just did not notice it when he did it; at any rate, he never mentioned it to me, and I did not notice it till I had reassembled the motor and fired it up for initial run in. He and I exchanged a few words over that one, to put it mildly. I wound up replacing that block, with a spare, but he machined the 2nd block for free.

Now is the time to be doing a thorough inspection, and making the tough choices early on, as the OP is. If it ain't right, either make it right, or code it out with a replacement. Before you invest in hot tanking, machining, etc..

4jc8z
07-06-2017, 05:52 PM
...and Permatex is not the answer, to hold them in place.


That is correct, but as long as the freeze plug fits tightly in the hole yet, it is great for if there are a few pits. I would rather have a few pits then the holes 'cleaned up' by a machine shop.

Also, I've seen people install freeze plugs without any permatex.....

BILT4ME
07-06-2017, 07:19 PM
You can clean up the holes with a little emery cloth and use IndianHead Gasket Sealer on the outside of the freeze plugs when inserting. Tap them in and STOP before the outside edge is flush. The correct depth is to be outside about 1/16". (there's a thread on here somewhere about all this). The land behind the plug is NOT required, as the small block Chevrolets have a clean hole bored through with no land.

Make sure you clean the thread on the drain plug and install a NEW steel plug. My block had MAJOR electrolysis going on with that plug to the point there were only two threads left on the plug. I had to re-tap the threads for a new plug to be installed.

I removed about 1-1/2 QUARTS of casting sand, rust and dirt from the inside of the block on mine. Coat Hanger, garden hose, and pressure washer are the tools.

JoeHall
07-06-2017, 09:41 PM
You can clean up the holes with a little emery cloth and use IndianHead Gasket Sealer on the outside of the freeze plugs when inserting. Tap them in and STOP before the outside edge is flush. The correct depth is to be outside about 1/16". (there's a thread on here somewhere about all this). The land behind the plug is NOT required, as the small block Chevrolets have a clean hole bored through with no land.

Make sure you clean the thread on the drain plug and install a NEW steel plug. My block had MAJOR electrolysis going on with that plug to the point there were only two threads left on the plug. I had to re-tap the threads for a new plug to be installed.

I removed about 1-1/2 QUARTS of casting sand, rust and dirt from the inside of the block on mine. Coat Hanger, garden hose, and pressure washer are the tools.
I prefer brass plugs; coat them with Permatex, then use a deep well socket that just fits inside the plug, and hammer the socket to drive the plug into the block, against the, "land" for max metal to metal contact. For those holes that do not have a land, I stop at about same point as the ones that do, which is near flush with the block. For the 3/8" pipe threaded plugs, I use brass, with hex heads, not the ones with hex recess for allen wrench.

As mentioned in post #18, the Permatex is to seal tiny imperfections, NOT to hold the plug in place. Metal to metal contact is what is supposed to hold the plug in place. Never had to, but if in a pinch, I would not hesitate to use old school brass expandable plugs, with bolt in the center to swell the plug. I'd consider those a semi-permanent fix, good for at least 10 years.