Body question

[jrlemke]

'61 Hawk. Is it possible that the Studebaker factory used a filler (All-metal brand?) on the roof and trunk of my Hawk? The roof and trunk looked perfectly smooth with no waves. I had a couple of cracks, so I scraped the paint off (it's been repainted) and got large chips of a thin filler that was hard as glass. The whole roof appears to be coated as well as the trunk! It looks like it's going to be a very big job to correct!- Jim

[Dwight FitzSimons]

I don't think the factory used any plastic body filler on Steel Studebakers, only lead in the seams, like on the C pillar. I think that plastic auto body filler came on the scene roughly about this time. Someone please correct me if I'm off on this date.
-Dwight

[StudeRich]

The Body seam in each side of your Trunk Lid from the Lid opening to the Window opening is leaded, but only in seams.

Any Bondo or Lead in the middle of Panels are Body/Paint Shop work.

[jrlemke]

This is the complete roof and the smooth surfaces of the trunk. About 1/16" thick and as smooth as the steel should be. I just can't see a regular body shop doing such a nice perfect job, and I know the guy I bought it from didn't do it! No seams are involved. -Jim

[52 Ragtop]

Before the plastic filler, lead was used to repair dents, IF metal finishing was unable to correct the damage. Metal finishing and lead work is a lost art! On todays vehicles, the metal is so thin, use of a torch would warp the heck out of it. Plastic filler has made "bodymen" out of anybody that can sling it! Some of the "hacks" out there are known as "Cave and Pavers"

IF that is lead, you MUST wear breathing protection! and of course, safety glasses!

Jim

[studegary]

The Body seam in each side of your Trunk Lid from the Lid opening to the Window opening is leaded, but only in seams.

Any Bondo or Lead in the middle of Panels are Body/Paint Shop work.

I wouldn't agree with that statement. Back in the 1950s - 1960s, I worked on original cars from the 1950s - 1960s that had major repairs in body panels made with lead. You would never know that it was there until you removed the original paint. I don't remember running into this on a Studebaker (I didn't do body work on many Studebakers then), but I do remember it on the Big 3. If they did it, I see no reason that Studebaker also did not practice this type of body repair (especially since Studebaker was more frugal than the Big 3.

[jrlemke]

It's not lead. It is hard as glass, a large chunk of it shattered when I dropped it on the cement! The dealer in town said it appeared to be "all metal"- Jim

[Dwight FitzSimons]

1) Years ago there was a brand of auto body filler, a large component of which was aluminum powder. There was enough aluminum that it looked like aluminum. That was supposed to be a selling point, perhaps as a better solution to rust-out repair. I don't know if that stuff is still on the market or not.
2) Studegary is probably right about Studebaker repairing body panels with lead (auto body solder). Years ago I stripped and repainted a '56 Continental Mark II. That body was full of lead. I know the Continental was a totally different animal than a Studebaker, but smaller areas could have been repaired by the factory.
-Dwight

[t walgamuth]

The Ferraris of the fifties had hand hammered panels done over wood bucks. The metal was less than perfect so they used a thick primer under the paint. it was more or less like bondo and could come off in patches of fairly good size...maybe the size of a silver dollar.

I imagine they had some sort of filler around at Studie's to do large areas.

My dad worked in what they called the "doll up shop" at the end of the assembly line where they did nothing but repair minor damage on cars done during assembly. Popping dings, and patching small nicks in the paint. If it took more than ten minutes it was sent to the body shop. I bet they had some sort of fast drying bondo there.

[jclary]

If the job was as smooth as you say, regardless of done at the factory, dealership shop, or independent body shop, it must have been a skillful and professional job. We are talking about decades old work. Ownership changes, people die, and people forget. I know of a story about a drunk driver in my state, back in the '60's, who was being pursued by the highway patrol and sheriff deputies. In an overly aggressive effort to stop the guy, they shot up his pickup. Fearing trouble, by the time he was released from jail, they put the truck in a local body shop, patched the holes, repainted, and then re-dirtied the truck, and by the time the old guy was released from jail, he got his truck back. He was so drunk, when arrested, he didn't remember.

I've heard that story from one of the patrolmen involved over the years. I was not involved, so I won't swear to the truth of the details. But, if someone ever bought that truck and attempted to restore it, he would have a hard time getting an explanation of bullet holes from that owner. The fact, that you say it is a thin layer of material, speaks well of whoever did the work. And that it has taken so long for cracks to develop, means the prep work was excellent. Even in leaded seams, cracks develop over time. It is the result of dissimilar materials expanding and contracting at different rates through the years.

[8E45E]

I know of a story about a drunk driver in my state, back in the '60's, who was being pursued by the highway patrol and sheriff deputies. In an overly aggressive effort to stop the guy, they shot up his pickup. Fearing trouble, by the time he was released from jail, they put the truck in a local body shop, patched the holes, repainted, and then re-dirtied the truck, and by the time the old guy was released from jail, he got his truck back. He was so drunk, when arrested, he didn't remember.

Even in leaded seams, cracks develop over time. It is the result of dissimilar materials expanding and contracting at different rates through the years.

That story sounds like its straight out of the movies!

It is true lead will separate from steel, as it did in this 1960 Imperial LeBaron I posted here: http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...perial-LeBaron

Craig

[jclary]

That story sounds like its straight out of the movies!...
Craig

Well Craig...true or not, you gotta realize the State, and era, we're talking about here. I've got more stories where that came from. Late night patrol was awfully boring, at times, unless you found a way to make it interesting. Like the time a local minister was caught behind his church in a car with his "organist!" Yep...organist

After calling a couple of others on patrol, a deal was struck that there would be no reporting of the incident, if the two would perform for the uniformed audience.

Again, I was not involved, and was pretty disgusted with the person who so proudly recounted the event. That pretty much ended my association with that person.

Sadly, nationwide, we can't continue to pay floor sweeper wages to protect our safety/freedom, and expect top shelf candidates.

Back to the topic of this thread. I learned (by experience) that when working on a vehicle with leaded panel seams, to learn exactly where the seams are. Leading is an art, and those that did it professionally were very skilled. Good leading work should be preserved and protected. There are newer materials that can be used to fill tiny age cracks between the steel and leadwork. These materials will stay somewhat flexible, but durable for years. So, rather than gouge out the lead, and start over, a thin seal coat of epoxy primer, might do the trick. I once made a mistake of welding near a leaded panel seam and before I knew it, I had melted out part of the leading. Fortunately, I realized it soon enough to improvise a "heat sink" and do no more damage. Since that episode, I have always tried to locate and protect the leading work on any vintage vehicle I attempt to repair. (Hopefully done with body work.)

[8E45E]

Like the time a local minister was caught behind his church in a car with his "organist!" Yep...organist

After calling a couple of others on patrol, a deal was struck that there would be no reporting of the incident, if the two would perform for the uniformed audience.

.

Back to the topic of this thread. I learned (by experience) that when working on a vehicle with leaded panel seams, to learn exactly where the seams are. Leading is an art, and those that did it professionally were very skilled. Good leading work should be preserved and protected. There are newer materials that can be used to fill tiny age cracks between the steel and leadwork. These materials will stay somewhat flexible, but durable for years. So, rather than gouge out the lead, and start over, a thin seal coat of epoxy primer, might do the trick. I once made a mistake of welding near a leaded panel seam and before I knew it, I had melted out part of the leading. Fortunately, I realized it soon enough to improvise a "heat sink" and do no more damage. Since that episode, I have always tried to locate and protect the leading work on any vintage vehicle I attempt to repair. (Hopefully done with body work.)

As far as the organ story goes, not sure how to interpret THAT one! http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...ighlight=organ

But the use of skilled leadwork does extend to more than just automobiles, and if you think its time consuming, try and restore a vintage pipe organ!!

Craig

[sweetolbob]

This is the complete roof and the smooth surfaces of the trunk. About 1/16" thick and as smooth as the steel should be. I just can't see a regular body shop doing such a nice perfect job, and I know the guy I bought it from didn't do it! No seams are involved. -Jim

I'm not sure why a "regular" body shop couldn't produce high quality work. They did around here back then. My guess is - hail damage or a tree limb fell on it sometime back. Bob

[jrlemke]

Bob- there is a very good chance that is what happened. The filler is "All metal" brand filler. The steel under it is somewhat pitted and has some "dimples" pushed up from inside. The headliner is still in the car, it was replaced sometime in the past with non-stock material so I can't see the underside of the roof. - Jim