Brakes: Disc Brake Conversion Question - Wilwood

[7dust]

Have reviewed the two front disc brake conversion kits for the 1953 Commander (Turner and the Hot Rods and Brakes kits) - I see that the Turner kit uses a 1968 Ford Mustang / Cougar Rotor and what looks like a spacer that is placed onto the Studebaker spindle.

My question is: Aside from the caliper mounting bracket, does anyone see any obvious issues with using a Wilwood kit for a 1968 Mustang and modifying the bracket for the Wilwood Calipers?

I'm not sure how important the spacer would be? - but looks like I can get them - if necessary from Turner Brake.

I know the kits out there have great reviews but I am preparing the car for Original Pan Am in La Carrera Panamericana. I must keep the stock suspension but looking for four or six piston calipers disc brakes. Not sure if the kits available are up to the task or are intended for racing on mountain roads.

[JoeHall]

Sorry I cannot answer your question, but will be watching this thread with interest.
Thanks,
Joe

[Mike Van Veghten]

Just buy the Turner "bracket" kit, and the Wilwood caliper that replaces the GM caliper..! They are a direct bolt-on.

http://www.wilwood.com/Calipers/CaliperList.aspx?subname=GM%20D52%20Dual%20Piston

That way, you get a lighter caliper, two pistons pushing on the pads instead of the GM's single piston, and the full sized GM pads.

OR...like I did...I bought the Hot Rods and Brakes kit. While not as pretty, the brackets are very simple and weigh about 1/3 (or less) of the Turner brackets. They are actually a copy of the old Levesque (spl.?) brackets that were designed and made many years ago. I have a set of the Levesque brakes on my daily driver Lark wagon. Been there for almost 100,000 miles now with zero problem.
The extra weight of the Turner kit makes the springs, shocks and tires work harder to keep the tire properly planted on the ground at all times. I talked to Jim many years back about this and got nowhere. No explanation, nothing. I asked him to make me a set of aluminum brackets, machined per the same design of his steel brackets...nuthin..! There's no reason his brackets need to be so complicated and heavy. Not even for litigation concerns..!
Corvettes and many other cars have had aluminum caliper brackets...for years now..!

Mike

[sweetolbob]

I have both Turner and Levesque on my Avantis. Jim's are excellent and he provides excellent service, Levesque is not available but work fine. No data on the Hot Rods kit personally.

But you might be able to go bigger/vented/newer rotors and calipers with Tom's adapters (sbca96) on forum. Might be worth a look if they are available currently.

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?81440-RAD-Ideas-Mustang-GT-and-Cobra-brake-adapter-bracket-update

Bob

[bezhawk]

I made my own bracket out of simple 10mm thick steel plate. used steel spacers like the Turner setup to level the plate over the counter sunk spindle bolt holes. Used the stock Studebaker hub, and drilled it our for .637 shouldered lug bolts. Used Jeep Cherokee rotors . Wilwood Dynalite calipers.

[JoeHall]

In the Harley world, more than one piston per caliper results in a lighter pedal/handle pressure needed. So I believe the Wilwood calipers would be worth looking into. Also important is rotor radius; the larger the radius, the better any given caliper will do its job. That is why I prefer the larger Levesque type setup, which uses huge rotors from late 60s-early 70s, full size FoMoCo. It also uses early GM, larger calipers, with larger piston, albeit single piston per caliper. However, the larger pistons are almost too much hydraulic volume for the 1" piston MC in Studes. I am guessing the original FoMoCo master cylinder for those cars used 1 1/16" of 1 1/8" pistons.

Disc brake system weight is un-sprung, so extra weight is a non issue for the suspension. However, it would add weight load on the tires. To offset that, the driver could just lose 5 pounds or so.

[Mike Van Veghten]

And then...I also made my own brackets. Also using the Wilwood Dynalite, four piston calipers for my 54 wagon. I used the Avanti rotors, modified things a little to be able to attach them to the original 54 hubs.
See them here (photos #10 to #16) -

https://public.fotki.com/-Mike-/my_studebakers/

Used the Wilwood dual, master cylinder also.
No power booster needed with four wheel disc's, provide an easy push to stop.

Mike

P.s. - Joe's comment on "loosing five pounds or so", has zero bearing on the extra spindle weight of heavy components..! ANY road race chassis/suspension designer worth his salt can attest to that. Just 9th grade physics.

[JoeHall]

Mike it looks like your bracket is for the smaller calipers and rotors, whereas the Leverque is for the larger ones. Yours looks like it would still allow future greasing the king pins. With Levesques, it is necessary to grind about .125" off the tip, then install a 90 degree grease fitting on the king pin. Unless a person never intends to grease the king pins again

[7dust]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]64282[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]64283[/ATTACH]I made my own bracket out of simple 10mm thick steel plate. used steel spacers like the Turner setup to level the plate over the counter sunk spindle bolt holes. Used the stock Studebaker hub, and drilled it our for .637 shouldered lug bolts. Used Jeep Cherokee rotors . Wilwood Dynalite calipers.

This is much closer to what I want to do. One or two piston calipers will not cut it. Absolutely must have four or six.

In your opinion in messing around with the Studebaker spindles, do you think the Wilwood hub and rotor for 1968 mustang will fit?

[junior]

...Disc brake system weight is un-sprung, so extra weight is a non issue for the suspension. However, it would add weight load on the tires. To offset that, the driver could just lose 5 pounds or so.

Yes the weight is un-sprung, but un-sprung weight IS an issue in a racing/ high performance environment. Other's comments about Turner Brakes brackets being heavy-duty, yes they are, but they are also rock-solid..in a street cruzin Studebaker the added un-sprung weight is just a fact that would be very hard for most folks ever to notice.

[Alan]

7dust, Never tried the Mustang, Willwood parts but have used and have been running on numerous cars, 70 Dodge charger Willwood hubs and rotors. Bolt right on with a swap of the inner bearing and oil seal.

[PackardV8]

7dust, Never tried the Mustang, Willwood parts but have used and have been running on numerous cars, 70 Dodge charger Willwood hubs and rotors. Bolt right on with a swap of the inner bearing and oil seal.

X2, Alan. I'm using older Wilwood 6-piston calipers and rotors from a '70s Mopar setup on my custom '56 Hawk. IIRC, the Wilwood setup weighs about half that of the OEM systems, but costs twice as much.

jack vines

[Skybolt]

Mike it looks like your bracket is for the smaller calipers and rotors, whereas the Leverque is for the larger ones. Yours looks like it would still allow future greasing the king pins. With Levesques, it is necessary to grind about .125" off the tip, then install a 90 degree grease fitting on the king pin. Unless a person never intends to grease the king pins again

Joe, Just to be clear Dave sold brackets/kits for rotors from 11" Granada rotors and larger Chrysler and some rotors that were also redrilled, so depending on what size and kit you are referring to makes a difference, there was not just one size when referring to Lavesque parts.

Len

[Mike Van Veghten]

Joe -

The Dynalite calipers I used are the "standard" four piston caliper with the same piston sq. in. as the GM caliper. The pads are almost the same size in square inches as the earlier (inch vs. metric) GM pads. About 1/8" s.q. in smaller.
While I haven't had in on the drag strip (not the good engine yet), so far the stopping power is much better than the setup on my 59 Lark, which has a master cylinder with too large a piston (previous owner installed) with the Levesque assembly, large GM calipers. I just haven't changed the M.C. like I should have..!

As noted in my first post, I used the Hot Rods and Brakes bracket (like the Levesque bracket) and the full size Wilwood, GM replacement caliper, and a vented rotor on my "driver" 54 wagon.
It's got Ford rotors and calipers in the back.

Mike

[t walgamuth]

On my CE we are running 12" ventilated rotors front and rear with GM calipers. We are running the master cylinder and booster from the 83 Mercedes to match the engine (and I had two parts cars to get stuff from). The front suspension is Mustang 2 style, the rear end is stock studebaker springs and a ford 9".

I wondered about matching cylinder diameters and so forth but decided to just bolt it all in and see how it works. It works perfectly. We installed a racing style brake balancer but I have not touched it.

I guess my reason for posting is to say that line pressures must be very similar on all the brakes if my mish mash of parts works perfectly.