Engine: Oil Flush

[Aussie Hawk]

Hi all,
Which is the best way to flush out the very old oil from a '55 Champion Six? Not just an oil change, OH, it has no oil filter.

[Ross]

If runnable just warm it up well, drain it and let it drip out overnight. If not running, it would be a good time to drop the pan and give that a proper cleaning along with the pressure relief valve. I am pretty sure the 55s still had a floating pickup screen which is very effective in keeping the nasty bits out of the circulating oil--as long as the level of sludge has not accumulated enough to come up and meet the pickup. Don't be in a panic to install an oil filter. With even moderate maintenance those engines survived OK. Once back in service another oil change after a few hundred miles would not hurt.

[Aussie Hawk]

The engine is running. I was just wondering if it was better to use some sort of flushing agent.

[BILT4ME]

I would NOT use a flushing agent such as Seafoam, Kerosene, or Marvel Mystery Oil. They ALL thin the viscosity and COULD damage bearings.

The MOST I would do is to use a diesel rated engine oil such as Rotella-T because diesel oils have more cleaning agents than gasoline engine oil.

That being said, I would just run the CORRECT modern-day oil through it and change it every 1000 miles for the first 5 oil changes. The newer oils have MUCH better cleaning abilities than the old oils.

[jnormanh]

I would NOT use a flushing agent such as Seafoam, Kerosene, or Marvel Mystery Oil. They ALL thin the viscosity and COULD damage bearings.

The MOST I would do is to use a diesel rated engine oil such as Rotella-T because diesel oils have more cleaning agents than gasoline engine oil.

That being said, I would just run the CORRECT modern-day oil through it and change it every 1000 miles for the first 5 oil changes. The newer oils have MUCH better cleaning abilities than the old oils.

Right on. If there's significant sludge in the pan, then solvents may break it loose and spread it everywhere.

Either drop the pan and clean it out or do as BILT4ME recommends.

[Hawkowner]

Would pull the pan time and money well spent .
Hawkowner

[colt45sa]

I would NOT use a flushing agent such as Seafoam, Kerosene, or Marvel Mystery Oil. They ALL thin the viscosity and COULD damage bearings.

The MOST I would do is to use a diesel rated engine oil such as Rotella-T because diesel oils have more cleaning agents than gasoline engine oil.

That being said, I would just run the CORRECT modern-day oil through it and change it every 1000 miles for the first 5 oil changes. The newer oils have MUCH better cleaning abilities than the old oils.

I agree with the statement as made. HOWEVER, if you have not heard about 'Kreen' from Kano Labs, you need to do yourself a favor and look it up. I've been around old cars for over 50 years and have seen some 'flushes' that over-did it and tha=e engines wound up using oil and smoking. Kreen is the most effective product I and my brother (a classic car restorer) have ever found.

[TWChamp]

When you drain the oil, take a coat hanger and bend it to 90 degrees, then stick it through the drain hole and spin it to see if you can pick up any sludge from the pan bottom.
If you pick up any sludge, then I'd drop the pan for a proper cleaning.

[jnormanh]

I agree with the statement as made. HOWEVER, if you have not heard about 'Kreen' from Kano Labs, you need to do yourself a favor and look it up. I've been around old cars for over 50 years and have seen some 'flushes' that over-did it and tha=e engines wound up using oil and smoking. Kreen is the most effective product I and my brother (a classic car restorer) have ever found.

I don't know anything about Kreen, but sludge in an oil pan has two choices: Stay where it is or get pumped through the engine.

There's no way to really know how much sludge is in an oil pan. If it's an ancient engine, there's probably plenty.

How long does it take to drop the pan, clean it out and reinstall? An hour? Maybe two if you do it on your back with the car on jack stands?

And to save that hour or two and ten bucks for a new gasket, you'd pour some miracle solvent in it and risk pumping all the sludge, grit, metal particles and other assorted nasties through your engine?

YOUR engine, not mine.

[doofus]

When you do pull the pan for OH wear gloves,the kind you get from your FLAPS. that black mayo gets on everything and is damn hard to get off. on some surfaces Goop hand cleaner rubbed into the spot will help.Watch the shoes!!! Luck Doofus

[colt45sa]

I don't know anything about Kreen, but sludge in an oil pan has two choices: Stay where it is or get pumped through the engine.

There's no way to really know how much sludge is in an oil pan. If it's an ancient engine, there's probably plenty.

How long does it take to drop the pan, clean it out and reinstall? An hour? Maybe two if you do it on your back with the car on jack stands?

And to save that hour or two and ten bucks for a new gasket, you'd pour some miracle solvent in it and risk pumping all the sludge, grit, metal particles and other assorted nasties through your engine?

YOUR engine, not mine.

That's not quite true. Kreen will cause the sludge to dissolve over time as the oil circulates over it. No chunks, no lumps, no grit, and 'metal particles'(?). If you've got metal particles in the pan you've got more problems than dropping the pan is going to cure~! If you don't want to learn about Kreen, fine. If you don't want to try Kreen, fine. I'm simply sharing what I've learned over 50 years. I'd be interested in knowing how dropping the pan is going to clean oil passages in the block and in the rocker arm shaft. Just curious~! Some day I'll tell you where the sludge came from.

[jnormanh]

If you don't want to try Kreen, fine. I'm simply sharing what I've learned over 50 years. I'd be interested in knowing how dropping the pan is going to clean oil passages in the block and in the rocker arm shaft. Just curious~! Some day I'll tell you where the sludge came from.

No thanks, don't believe I'll try it.

A clean oil pan and fill of modern oil will slowly clean passages in the block and elsewhere unless they're badly plugged. In that case, there are worn out parts which need to be replaced anyway.


However 90%+ of the sludge will be in the pan.

Yes, I know where sludge comes from. It isn't Top Secret knowledge. It's soot from over rich carburetion and/ or weak ignition, oxidized and polymerized oil components, wear products from rings, pistons, bearings and everywhere else plus acids from atmospheric moisture and emulsified water from combustion. Add to that bits of partially decomposed gaskets and seals and whatever the crankcase ventilation has sucked in.

But can let me in on a real secret: Where does sludge and all the nasty bits in it go when you dump some miracle solvent in the oil?

I don't care what miraculous substance claims are made. You won't find the major oil companies, who have dozens/hundreds of lubrication engineers, hawking it. Nor will you find one single car manufacturer recommending it. You won't find fleet operators who maintain vehicles over many millions of miles per year using it.

But any car parts shore will have shelves full of Engine-Rebuild-In-A-Can.

Here's info from a guy who has actually used Kreen with before/after photos and oil analysis.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2939633

[BILT4ME]

I would be very wary of using cleaners in Studebaker engines. Particularly in the pre-1963 versions with partial flow or no oil filters. The debris in the oil or the lack of viscosity in the oil is what will kill these engines. That is part of the reason the original engine in my 59 Lark was burning massive amounts of oil at only 28K miles. The PO didn't change the oil often enough and the debris tore up the rings and everything in it.

My 63 engine has over 180K on it and the bearings are still within tolerance and are original. Change it frequently and keep it clean.

When I recently opened my 63 engine, I used a putty knife to remove the zinc sludge and paste that was in the lifter valley and in the bottom of the oil pan. This stuff had not washed away with 10 oil changes in 5000 miles. That being said, I had a shop that did the exhaust pour in 5W30 Valvoline and in 15 miles, the oil went to black, but I could also hear the rods hammering away. I immediately changed the oil back to my 20W50 I run. (It was a mistake and I thought I had oil ready for him in the trunk but I didn't)

I TOTALLY agree with jnormannh about fleet owners not using these "snake oils".

My brother is now a truck and diesel instructor at a college. He ran a truck shop for 15 years and they did regular oil analysis on every truck to map the patterns and wear for each truck. They could totally evaluate the rebuild for each one and they did numerous studies on brands and type of oil in certain trucks and then mapped them, and as long as they used quality products, they never had issues. When the inferior brands were used, the results showed it. They determined they wanted to use Wix brand filters at the time due to the filtration performance (they cut apart and had filters analyzed professionally)

They would occasionally use a diesel version of "Motor Honey", but only when the engine was already on its way out and enough to bring it home for the rebuild to be scheduled.

[colt45sa]

No thanks, don't believe I'll try it.

A clean oil pan and fill of modern oil will slowly clean passages in the block and elsewhere unless they're badly plugged. In that case, there are worn out parts which need to be replaced anyway.


However 90%+ of the sludge will be in the pan.

Yes, I know where sludge comes from. It isn't Top Secret knowledge. It's soot from over rich carburetion and/ or weak ignition, oxidized and polymerized oil components, wear products from rings, pistons, bearings and everywhere else plus acids from atmospheric moisture and emulsified water from combustion. Add to that bits of partially decomposed gaskets and seals and whatever the crankcase ventilation has sucked in.

But can let me in on a real secret: Where does sludge and all the nasty bits in it go when you dump some miracle solvent in the oil?

I don't care what miraculous substance claims are made. You won't find the major oil companies, who have dozens/hundreds of lubrication engineers, hawking it. Nor will you find one single car manufacturer recommending it. You won't find fleet operators who maintain vehicles over many millions of miles per year using it.

But any car parts shore will have shelves full of Engine-Rebuild-In-A-Can.

Here's info from a guy who has actually used Kreen with before/after photos and oil analysis.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forum...Number=2939633

I've already said 'try it or don't try it', it matters little to me. I'm not going to get into any kind of argument with you. The link you provided shows nothing negative about Kreen, and you've missed one of the biggest contributors of 'sludge'. I've met far too many people like you in my life and choose not to engage with any more today or in the future.